WEBVTT 00:00:02.300 --> 00:00:04.100 Bei Anruf Wein. 00:00:05.750 --> 00:00:07.280 Der Weinfreunde-Podcast. 00:00:09.560 --> 00:00:11.390 Ich grüße euch, liebe Weinfreunde. 00:00:11.390 --> 00:00:12.710 Mein Name ist Tobias. 00:00:12.740 --> 00:00:14.870 Willkommen Bei Anruf Wein. 00:00:15.380 --> 00:00:21.920 Mit dem Weinland Chile verbindet mich persönlich ganz viel, denn ich besuchte den Andenstaat vor über 10 Jahren selbst einmal. 00:00:22.250 --> 00:00:27.500 Eine faszinierende Reise mit für immer bleibenden Eindrücken und vielen hervorragenden Weinen. 00:00:27.860 --> 00:00:34.010 Damals lernte ich auch Aurelio Montes kennen, ein wahrer Pionier im Hinblick auf Premiumwein aus Chile. 00:00:34.040 --> 00:00:36.140 Man denke nur an die Montes-Alpha-Weine. 00:00:36.530 --> 00:00:45.410 Daher ist es mehr als passend, dass ich für diese Folge von Bei Anruf Wein ein ausführliches Interview mit Aurelio Montes Junior führen durfte, der heute für 00:00:45.410 --> 00:00:47.510 die Weine von Montes verantwortlich ist. 00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:53.510 Das Gespräch hört ihr direkt, nachdem Michael und ich die Basisinfos zum Weinland Chile zusammengetragen haben. 00:00:53.990 --> 00:00:55.730 Also bleibt mal dran. 00:00:55.880 --> 00:00:57.140 Ich ruf den mal an! 00:01:02.050 --> 00:01:04.330 Michael: Buenos dias, mi amigo. 00:01:04.330 --> 00:01:04.870 ¿Cómo estás? 00:01:05.290 --> 00:01:05.890 Tobias: Ja, gut, gut. 00:01:05.980 --> 00:01:10.120 Michael: Ja. Ja, Ja. Mein Spanisch ist ja heute gar nicht gefragt, ne? 00:01:10.810 --> 00:01:16.180 Du bist mir ja auch in dieser Folge wieder mal fremdgegangen, beim Weinland Chile. 00:01:16.780 --> 00:01:18.940 Doch, du hast mich einfach ausgebootet. 00:01:19.240 --> 00:01:19.930 ¡Qué vergüenza! 00:01:20.440 --> 00:01:24.970 Tobias: Also jetzt stell dich mal wirklich nicht so an, weil das war im Jahr 2013. 00:01:25.090 --> 00:01:28.030 Also ich glaube, da kannten wir uns noch nicht mal. 00:01:28.270 --> 00:01:30.310 Also lassen wir es einfach mal so stehen. 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:33.250 Ich war schon in Chile und du halt nicht. 00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:42.730 So! Und dass ich obendrein damals Aurelio Montes kennenlernte, also den Grandseigneur des chilenischen Spitzenweins, und ich heute unseren Hörerinnen 00:01:42.730 --> 00:01:50.860 und Hörern ein Interview mit seinem Sohn Aurelio Montes Junior präsentieren darf, das ist ja schon geradezu schicksalshaft. 00:01:50.890 --> 00:01:53.020 Michael: Ja, ja, ja, das hat schon was, zugegeben. 00:01:53.020 --> 00:02:02.520 Aber damit ist ja dann auch endgültig die Frage geklärt, ob du heute richtig Feuer und Flamme für unseren Podcast Nummer 96 übrigens bist? 00:02:02.550 --> 00:02:10.230 Ja, also ich sage jetzt mal ganz offiziell: Willkommen Bei Anruf Wein, und volle Konzentration auf das Weinland Chile. 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:11.820 Tobias: Liebend gern, natürlich. 00:02:11.820 --> 00:02:16.710 Und hier schon mal die übergeordneten Koordinaten zur Einordnung sozusagen. 00:02:16.830 --> 00:02:20.220 Also wir befinden uns in der neuen Weinwelt. 00:02:20.250 --> 00:02:22.560 So nennt man das ja dann gerne, Neue Welt. 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:28.590 Wir schauen also auf die Südhalbkugel und reden dennoch ganz viel über französische Rebsorten. 00:02:28.710 --> 00:02:30.900 Das wird auch gleich kommen. 00:02:30.900 --> 00:02:34.680 Aber das durchaus, sage ich mal, in einem sehr großen Maßstab. 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:44.490 Mit etwa 200.000 Hektar Rebfläche ist das vermeintlich kleine Chile immerhin doppelt so groß wie alle deutschen Anbaugebiete zusammen. 00:02:44.640 --> 00:02:46.200 Michael: Ja, und so ist es. 00:02:46.200 --> 00:02:55.560 Und ganz grob kann man sagen, es gibt die nördlichen Weinregionen und dann gibt es die im Süden und dann natürlich auch noch welche in der Mitte des Landes. 00:02:55.610 --> 00:02:58.400 Also drei Hotspots für den Weinbau da. 00:02:58.430 --> 00:03:07.010 Und das wisst ihr hoffentlich alle noch aus unserer Neuseeland-Folge: Süden bedeutet in der südlichen Hemisphäre kühl. 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:12.980 Also dort ist halt der Norden, was für uns europäische Nasen der Süden ist. 00:03:13.010 --> 00:03:16.340 Also warm bis heiß und eher trocken. 00:03:16.580 --> 00:03:23.360 Ich sag jetzt nur mal als Stichwort, und um eure Vorstellung ein bisschen anzuregen, Atacama-Wüste. 00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:26.780 Ja, an diese grenzt nämlich Chile im Norden. 00:03:26.930 --> 00:03:28.220 Im Norden, also. 00:03:28.610 --> 00:03:35.450 Aber das Besondere an Chile für mich ist eigentlich, ich sage jetzt mal, dieses geografische Schmalspurformat. 00:03:35.990 --> 00:03:40.340 Tobias: Das ist ein gutes Stichwort, aber ich bleibe jetzt mal bei dem Schmalspurformat. 00:03:40.460 --> 00:03:46.520 Das hört sich jetzt zwar wenig schmeichelhaft an, aber ich weiß schon, worauf du damit anspielst. 00:03:46.790 --> 00:03:53.870 Chile zieht sich nämlich ziemlich in die Länge und geht eigentlich nirgends wirklich in die Breite. 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:59.730 Also schaut mal alle im Atlas nach, wenn ihr so was noch habt, oder meinetwegen auch auf Google Maps. 00:04:00.060 --> 00:04:05.070 Also Chile ist der Streifen an der Westküste Südamerikas, der sich vom 17. 00:04:05.070 --> 00:04:08.880 Breitengrad hinunter bis zum südlichen Polarmeer erstreckt. 00:04:08.910 --> 00:04:12.150 Michael: Ja, ja, genau. Und Streifen bedeutet auch noch was. 00:04:12.180 --> 00:04:17.010 Ja, im Westen von Chile liegt immer der Pazifik. 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:23.310 Ja, und im Osten wird das Land über die gesamte Länge quasi von den Anden behütet. 00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:28.860 Also meist vor Argentinien, aber das lassen wir jetzt mal an dieser Stelle. 00:04:28.890 --> 00:04:38.220 Also in Kilometern ausgedrückt: Über 6.000 Kilometer Küstenlinie stehen quasi über 6.000 Kilometer Hochgebirge 00:04:38.220 --> 00:04:40.610 gegenüber. Das ist Chile. 00:04:40.610 --> 00:04:49.320 Und die Schriftstellerin Isabel Allende kennen wir, glaube ich, alle, sie nannte ihre Heimat deshalb auch mal das langgestreckte Land. 00:04:49.350 --> 00:04:50.580 Ja, das finde ich schön. 00:04:50.760 --> 00:04:52.490 Die Küste hier, Anden dort. 00:04:54.110 --> 00:05:03.110 Das ist jetzt ja nicht nur geographisch interessant, sondern verweist eben auch maßgeblich auf so wichtige Faktoren für den Weinbau in Chile. 00:05:03.260 --> 00:05:04.460 Tobias: Ja, so ist es. Genau, Michael. 00:05:04.880 --> 00:05:09.350 Und ich sehe schon, du bist dieses Mal ja richtig gut vorbereitet. 00:05:09.500 --> 00:05:19.490 Also beide Faktoren sorgen nämlich dafür, dass nicht nur die vielen Sonnenstunden zum Weinbau einladen, denn sowohl der Pazifik mit dem 00:05:19.490 --> 00:05:28.910 kalten Humboldtstrom als auch die Anden-Ausläufer mit den großen Temperaturunterschieden zwischen Tag und Nacht mildern die viele Sonne mit 00:05:28.940 --> 00:05:31.640 deutlich kühlenden Effekten ab. 00:05:32.210 --> 00:05:41.960 Also es ist genau dieses Zusammenspiel, das das Weinland so einzigartig macht und hat halt eben auch an der Stelle nicht diese enorme Anzahl an 00:05:41.960 --> 00:05:44.510 Höhenlagen wie Argentinien beispielsweise. 00:05:44.690 --> 00:05:49.610 Michael: Okay, ja. Aber, muss man auch ansprechen, das Problem heißt: Wasser. 00:05:49.940 --> 00:05:50.530 Tobias: Ja, Stimmt. 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:54.160 Michael: Die Niederschlagsmengen sind allgemein eher gering. 00:05:54.190 --> 00:05:59.500 Ja, außer in diesem berühmten El-Niño-Jahren, wenn alles irgendwie feucht und stürmisch wird. 00:06:00.130 --> 00:06:01.870 Tobias: Ja, das braucht man immer ja auch nicht. 00:06:01.900 --> 00:06:11.480 Michael: Allgemein gesprochen ist Chile einfach ein trockenes Land, weshalb die Bewässerung der Rebflächen in einigen Regionen, ich sage jetzt mal, Standard 00:06:11.480 --> 00:06:14.440 ist, also unverzichtbar ist, sonst geht da nichts mit Weinen. 00:06:14.500 --> 00:06:22.450 Ja, und genau das wird in – Achtung, dein Stichwort – Zeiten des Klimawandels ja zu einem immer größeren Problem. 00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:24.550 Tobias: Ja, Wasser ist wirklich ein gutes Stichwort. 00:06:24.580 --> 00:06:33.070 Darüber habe ich nach meiner Reise nach Chile sogar einen Bericht für das Weinmagazin Weinwisser geschrieben und mit – ja, ja – und mit Aurelio Montes 00:06:33.100 --> 00:06:42.880 Junior spreche ich darüber im folgenden Interview natürlich auch, weil die machen beispielsweise trotzdem Dry Farming, also versuchen immer mehr 00:06:42.880 --> 00:06:44.380 auch Wasser zu sparen. 00:06:44.380 --> 00:06:47.170 Da gibt es also eine sehr, sehr interessante Entwicklung. 00:06:47.200 --> 00:06:53.810 Deswegen bleibt bitte lange genug dabei, denn das Interview mit ihm ist nicht nur in dieser Hinsicht sehr aufschlussreich. 00:06:54.230 --> 00:06:57.680 Aber ich wende das jetzt erst einmal ins Positive. 00:06:58.430 --> 00:07:04.910 Muss man ja auch mal sagen. Pilzkrankheiten zählen jetzt nicht so zu den Herausforderungen des Weinbaus in Chile. 00:07:05.090 --> 00:07:08.630 Also zumindest viel, viel weniger als andernorts. 00:07:08.660 --> 00:07:12.860 Das erledigt sozusagen dieses trockene Klima weitestgehend ganz alleine. 00:07:12.980 --> 00:07:14.990 Michael: Ja, das hast du jetzt schön gewendet. 00:07:14.990 --> 00:07:22.280 Aber tatsächlich war das auch ein Grund, warum schon die spanischen Eroberer, wenn man das so sagen darf, Eroberer im 16. 00:07:22.280 --> 00:07:25.460 Jahrhundert edle Weinreben nach Chile gebracht haben. 00:07:25.610 --> 00:07:27.650 Also die haben auch gemerkt, hier geht was. 00:07:28.070 --> 00:07:37.820 Also umso bemerkenswerter ist es ja, dass wir beim Weinland Chile heute eben nicht an spanische Rebsorten wie Tempranillo und Garnacha, 00:07:37.850 --> 00:07:47.200 Verdejo oder sogar Albariño reden, sondern eigentlich durchgehend über französische Reben, und vor allem Rebsorten aus dem Bordeaux. 00:07:47.230 --> 00:07:54.100 Denke ich an Chile, fallen mir bei den Rotweinen zuerst Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot und Carménère ein. 00:07:54.100 --> 00:07:55.360 Alles Bordeaux-Reben. 00:07:55.600 --> 00:08:01.480 Also wir nehmen jetzt mal den Syrah außen vor von der Rhône, darüber haben wir ja letztens schon gesprochen. 00:08:01.780 --> 00:08:09.610 Tobias: Ja, ja, das stimmt schon. Also dir müsste es ja eigentlich richtig wehtun, dass deine geliebten spanischen Rebsorten in Chile nicht zu finden sind. 00:08:10.300 --> 00:08:14.350 Und interessanterweise ist das ja bei den weißen Rebsorten eben nicht anders. 00:08:14.380 --> 00:08:19.300 Du hast ja gerade schon gesagt, Verdejo, Albariño gibt es in Chile eher nicht. 00:08:19.450 --> 00:08:21.580 Auch da sind es eben die französischen Sorten. 00:08:21.730 --> 00:08:24.700 Also ganz konkret Sauvignon Blanc und Chardonnay. 00:08:24.730 --> 00:08:28.450 Das sind eigentlich so die Stars der weißen Rebsorten in Chile. 00:08:28.930 --> 00:08:31.300 Und im Endeffekt erklärt sich das auch ganz einfach. 00:08:31.420 --> 00:08:35.440 Also der erste große Sprung des Weinlands Chile findet nämlich im 19. 00:08:35.440 --> 00:08:40.060 Jahrhundert statt, als die französischen Weine eben das Nonplusultra darstellen. 00:08:41.050 --> 00:08:49.620 Und damals sind es eben die vermögenden Familien aus dem In- und Ausland, die in den chilenischen Weinbau investieren und nur das Beste vom Besten wollen. 00:08:49.740 --> 00:08:58.200 Also ganz einfach eben französische Rebsorten und möglichst halt eben auch Weine mit der super Qualität, die man aus dem Bordeaux kannte. 00:08:58.470 --> 00:09:00.840 Michael: Da hatte es auch ominöse Blindverkostungen gegeben. 00:09:00.930 --> 00:09:04.260 Aber das Phänomen ist ja nicht nur im 19. 00:09:04.260 --> 00:09:06.870 Jahrhundert zu beobachten, das ist im 20. 00:09:06.870 --> 00:09:10.290 Jahrhundert genauso. Das wiederholt sich quasi noch einmal. 00:09:10.980 --> 00:09:14.280 Also so große Namen, die wir jetzt aus Chile kennen. 00:09:14.970 --> 00:09:19.320 So was wie Luis Felipe Edwards eben halt Montes oder auch Rothschild. 00:09:19.350 --> 00:09:27.780 Ja, die setzen in den 1970er-Jahren aufwärts genauso überzeugt auf diese französischen Rebsorten. 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:37.050 Zumal, und das Argument wird dann echt wichtiger, diese Reben in Chile eigentlich französischer sind als die Verwandten in Frankreich. 00:09:37.230 --> 00:09:39.360 Stichwort Reblauskatastrophe. 00:09:39.930 --> 00:09:41.250 Tobias: Ja, da hast du natürlich recht. 00:09:41.250 --> 00:09:44.330 Aber das muss man jetzt den Zuhörerinnen und Zuhörern noch mal genauer erklären. 00:09:44.900 --> 00:09:54.710 Also die Reblaus hat es, ja, man kann eigentlich sagen nie wirklich nach Chile geschafft, nur so vereinzelt, aber man findet dort eben noch 00:09:54.740 --> 00:09:58.910 beispielsweise wurzelechten Cabernet Sauvignon, Merlot oder auch Carménère. 00:09:59.060 --> 00:10:08.330 Ja, also keine Reben, die auf amerikanische Reben gepfropft werden mussten, so wie es in Europa seit den 1860er-Jahren quasi Standard ist. 00:10:08.540 --> 00:10:14.120 Sondern das sind aus Europa eingeführte Reben noch auf den originalen Wurzeln. 00:10:14.270 --> 00:10:20.840 Und das ist natürlich in Argentinien ähnlich, aber mit Blick auf die gesamte Weinwelt wirklich eine Besonderheit. 00:10:20.990 --> 00:10:27.410 Also wie du schon gesagt hast, die Reben sind somit eigentlich originaler als unsere Reben in Europa. 00:10:27.440 --> 00:10:29.270 Michael: Also mich musst du gar nicht überzeugen. 00:10:29.360 --> 00:10:31.580 Ich bin ein großer Chile-Fan. 00:10:32.120 --> 00:10:40.730 Nicht nur was die Weine betrifft, die im, wie sagt man das heute so schön, in diesem Preis-Genuss-Verhältnis einfach Spitze sind. 00:10:40.760 --> 00:10:42.530 Das muss man an der Stelle ja auch mal sagen. 00:10:42.650 --> 00:10:47.360 Aber ich bin auch Chile-Fan, wenn es um Literatur und Spirituosen geht. 00:10:47.390 --> 00:10:49.220 Du kennst mich, das passt immer gut zusammen. 00:10:49.400 --> 00:10:51.120 Roberto Bolaño. 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:54.380 Ja, das ist für mich einer der größten Autoren des 20. 00:10:54.380 --> 00:10:56.030 Jahrhunderts überhaupt. 00:10:56.150 --> 00:10:57.410 Und Pisco? 00:10:57.530 --> 00:10:59.210 Hast du schon mal Pisco probiert? 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:03.800 Tobias: Ja, allerdings. Und ich muss zugeben, das war auch damals in Chile zum ersten Mal. 00:11:04.280 --> 00:11:11.540 Pisco Sour gab es auf der Reise, ja, ich sage mal, bereits vor jedem Mittagessen, also vorher. 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:15.530 Glücklicherweise sind wir immer mit dem Bus rumkutschiert worden. 00:11:15.770 --> 00:11:19.070 Aber Pisco Sour ist seitdem einer meiner Lieblingsdrinks. 00:11:19.100 --> 00:11:21.890 Ein Rezept dazu findet sich übrigens auch auf meinem Blog. 00:11:21.890 --> 00:11:27.890 Muss ich ja vielleicht auch mal erwähnen, auf weinlakai.de hatte ich damals unbedingt aufschreiben müssen, weil ich so begeistert war. 00:11:27.980 --> 00:11:29.960 Einfach mal die Suchfunktion benutzen. 00:11:30.170 --> 00:11:32.240 Pisco P-I-S-C-O. 00:11:32.570 --> 00:11:40.340 Ach so, und meinen Beitrag über den Wassermangel in Chile, der im Weinwisser veröffentlicht wurde, auch den findet man auf weinlakai.de. 00:11:40.700 --> 00:11:42.710 Michael: Ja, ja, ja. Jetzt ist gut, weißt du? 00:11:42.740 --> 00:11:45.440 Du schimpfst immer über mich, wenn ich Werbung mache. 00:11:45.470 --> 00:11:48.410 Ja, aber na gut, lassen wir das jetzt mal weg. 00:11:49.070 --> 00:11:54.950 Noch viel überraschender, ich staune geradezu, du hast einen Lieblingsdrink? 00:11:54.980 --> 00:11:56.780 Ja, so kenne ich das gar nicht. 00:11:56.810 --> 00:11:59.030 Das ist das erste Mal, dass ich davon höre. 00:11:59.060 --> 00:12:01.610 Ja, aber nur mal kurz erklärt für alle anderen. 00:12:01.730 --> 00:12:08.780 Pisco ist ein Weinbrand, der in Chile meist aus der Rebsorte Moscatel de Alexandria erzeugt wird. 00:12:08.930 --> 00:12:15.020 Also, Pisco ist so etwas wie ein südamerikanischer Cognac oder Weinbrand. 00:12:15.050 --> 00:12:24.350 Ja, und bis heute streiten sich Chile und Peru, ausnahmsweise mal nicht Argentinien, ganz heftig darüber, wo liegt jetzt eigentlich die 00:12:24.350 --> 00:12:26.540 ursprüngliche Heimat des Pisco? 00:12:26.570 --> 00:12:28.100 Wer hat ihn erfunden? 00:12:28.280 --> 00:12:32.000 Tobias: Wer hat's erfunden? Ja, genau das habe ich damals auch mitbekommen, diese Streitigkeit. 00:12:33.620 --> 00:12:36.920 Aber logischerweise haben alle gesagt, er kommt aus Chile. 00:12:37.280 --> 00:12:39.910 War aber ja auch nicht so verwundernswert. 00:12:40.030 --> 00:12:41.710 Aber jetzt bleibe bitte mal bei der Sache. 00:12:41.830 --> 00:12:45.910 Nix Peru, nix Pisco und jetzt auch nix mehr mit Literatur. 00:12:46.060 --> 00:12:52.960 Wir sind nach wie vor im Weinland Chile und den Zuhörerinnen und Zuhörern noch die wichtigsten Weinregionen schuldig. 00:12:53.140 --> 00:12:55.570 Fang doch mal an mit der Aufzählung, sozusagen. 00:12:55.660 --> 00:12:57.390 Michael: Okay, also ich mache das jetzt mal. 00:12:57.390 --> 00:13:01.870 Ne, ich beginne mal mit A wie Aconcagua. 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:03.940 Ja, Aconcagua. 00:13:03.970 --> 00:13:04.810 Das hört sich doch schön. 00:13:05.050 --> 00:13:05.440 Tobias: Sehr schön. 00:13:05.470 --> 00:13:10.150 Michael: Also, das ist aber eine relativ kleine Weinregion, jetzt auch für chilenische Verhältnisse. 00:13:11.470 --> 00:13:19.480 Aber das Anbaugebiet Valle de Aconcagua, ja, ist bei uns in Europa sicherlich so mit das Bekannteste aus Chile. 00:13:19.510 --> 00:13:28.600 Ja, also jetzt noch mal zur Einordnung: Wir befinden uns im warmen, heißen Norden des Landes und damit zunächst einmal auf Rotweingebiet. 00:13:28.630 --> 00:13:29.890 Ganz klare Bestimmung. 00:13:30.220 --> 00:13:39.570 Aber aufgrund der besonderen Topografie dieser Weinregion gibt es mit dem Valle de Casablanca, schöner Name, und im Valle de San Antonio auch 00:13:39.570 --> 00:13:43.320 Anbaugebiete, die tolle Weißweine hervorbringen. 00:13:43.350 --> 00:13:51.030 Also diese Täler profitieren nämlich sowohl vom kühlenden Pazifik als auch von den Küstengebirgen. 00:13:51.210 --> 00:13:57.120 Tobias: Ja, und beim Stichwort Norden, dann sind wir natürlich auch beim sogenannten Valle Central. 00:13:57.150 --> 00:14:00.270 Das ist die flächenmäßig größte Weinregion des Landes. 00:14:00.270 --> 00:14:05.100 Und hier kennt vielleicht der ein oder andere das Anbaugebiet Valle de Colchagua. 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:15.720 Die Rotweine von dort finden nämlich schon seit Jahren ihren Weg nach Europa und haben mal locker formuliert, sage ich mal, die Türe für chilenischen 00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:18.570 Spitzenwein bei uns ganz weit aufgestoßen. 00:14:18.780 --> 00:14:24.420 Dort sitzt im Übrigen auch das Weingut Montes und das hat sogar Weinberge im Apalta-Tal. 00:14:25.950 --> 00:14:29.250 Und das gilt so als die beste Lage in Colchagua. 00:14:30.180 --> 00:14:36.830 Eigentlich sogar, zumindest haben die mir das damals so erklärt, ist das sogar die beste Weinlage für Rotwein in ganz Chile. 00:14:37.010 --> 00:14:42.080 Michael: Ja, ja, du sicherst dir wieder die beste Rotwein Lage in ganz Chile, also okay. 00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:47.270 Aber ernst gesprochen, Colchagua, das war auch mein erster Kontakt mit Chile. 00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:56.300 Und wenn wir jetzt von Norden Richtung Süden wandern, dann bleibt halt nur dieser kühle, feuchte Süden des Landes. 00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:58.910 Und ja, was gibt es da zu berichten? 00:14:58.940 --> 00:15:05.780 Also in den vergangenen Jahren hat es vermehrt irgendwie Erzeuger gegeben in der Anbauregion - Achtung - Bío-Bío. 00:15:05.900 --> 00:15:07.010 Also die heißt wirklich so. 00:15:07.130 --> 00:15:13.400 Die haben so auf sich aufmerksam gemacht, weil sie dann plötzlich tolle Einzelweine, tolle Flaschenweine hergestellt haben. 00:15:13.400 --> 00:15:22.250 Denn traditionell gesehen ist das die Region, wo eben der Grundwein für den Pisco, also für diesen Weinbrand, entsteht. 00:15:22.250 --> 00:15:28.430 Aber in Bío-Bío, das muss man dazu sagen, ist natürlich nicht alles Bio, ja? 00:15:30.950 --> 00:15:32.120 Tobias: Ein schöner Wortwitz. 00:15:33.140 --> 00:15:37.460 Ja und das mit dem Pisco, das hatten wir ja auch schon, das müssen wir jetzt auch nicht mehr ausführen. 00:15:37.610 --> 00:15:47.360 Also ich glaube auch tatsächlich, das reicht jetzt eigentlich so als Basisinformation, um so eine allgemeine Vorstellung vom Weinland Chile zu 00:15:47.390 --> 00:15:57.290 erhalten. Denn jetzt kommt ja schließlich auch noch das Interview mit Aurelio Junior und der erzählt mir wirklich jede Menge Insights aus 00:15:57.290 --> 00:15:58.370 allererster Hand. 00:15:58.970 --> 00:16:02.390 Da kann ich einfach nur sagen: Bleib mal dran... 00:16:02.420 --> 00:16:04.940 Michael: Ja, ja, der Tobias spricht den jetzt an! 00:16:04.970 --> 00:16:06.440 Ich weiß schon, so geht es weiter. 00:16:06.440 --> 00:16:07.640 Ich bin jetzt raus. 00:16:07.790 --> 00:16:09.590 Also von meiner Seite. 00:16:09.770 --> 00:16:11.000 Bis zum nächsten Mal. 00:16:11.000 --> 00:16:12.140 Hasta la proxima. 00:16:12.170 --> 00:16:17.480 Tobias: Jo, bis denne. Ja, Aurelio, very nice to meet you. 00:16:17.510 --> 00:16:17.840 Hi. 00:16:18.050 --> 00:16:19.790 Hello, Tobias. Great to meet you. 00:16:20.360 --> 00:16:27.230 Yeah. And speaking of meeting you, I haven't met you in person, but I've actually already met your father. 00:16:27.410 --> 00:16:29.270 In 2013, I've visited Montes in Chile during a press trip. 00:16:29.270 --> 00:16:44.900 It was a wonderful time, but I think it was still around that time where you have been in Argentina managing the Kaiken winery, right? 00:16:45.020 --> 00:16:45.350 Exactly. I became the winemaker of Montes in the year 2007, and after a few years working for Montes, I decided to move as the head winemaker and technical 00:16:45.350 --> 00:17:06.950 director of Kaiken in Argentina. So I moved to Argentina from 2011 till 16. So it was a nice, nice experience. 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:17.000 Okay, yeah, that's sounds very very interesting and we're going to talk about this whole family affair bit later before 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:20.660 our talk have already spoken with my co-host 00:17:20.690 --> 00:17:24.890 Michael about the basics of the wine country Chile. 00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:34.840 That's why you would like to ask you to tell me something about you and how you became part in the world of wine. 00:17:35.260 --> 00:17:35.270 Well, it's a family story. Montes story that it's part of my story. It's started in the year 87, 88, when my father decided to change the wine industry 00:17:35.270 --> 00:17:35.280 in Chile. He decided to push for the quality and trying to show the world that Chile was a unique and special country, that we could produce amazing quality. 00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:35.290 And, I was a kid at that time, and my father, he started in a very simple way without money. He was fired from his old job because he was too crazy for the 00:17:35.290 --> 00:17:35.300 company. And his boss told him, you know, you're too crazy with your crazy ideas, trying to transform all the wine from simple entry level to premium 00:17:35.300 --> 00:17:35.310 level. No one's going to buy a bottle of Chilean premium wine. So my father being in the street with five kids, no money, he decided to do it anyway. So he 00:17:35.310 --> 00:17:35.320 invited three partners and so on. And they started in a garage and they started producing the first premium wine from Chile. So for me, the wine has been part 00:17:35.320 --> 00:17:35.330 of the wine industry or the winemaking has been part of my life since I was born. I still remember when I was a very kid running in between the tanks and 00:17:35.330 --> 00:17:35.340 the bats, you know, with my sister and brothers. And that smell of the of the winery of fermentation, and it was part of my life. So, after that I saw my 00:17:35.340 --> 00:17:35.350 father suffering, putting a lot of energy and passion in his new project. So in my mind it was like, what is going on here? You know, there's for sure there's 00:17:35.350 --> 00:17:35.360 something special in this beautiful world of wine. So but the funny story is, after that, I became a young person, and I decided not to become a winemaker 00:17:35.360 --> 00:17:35.370 because I was really focused on sports. And I loved to be outside. And at that time, being a winemaker used to be like a winemaker inside of a lab. All day in 00:17:35.370 --> 00:17:35.380 the laboratory and doing analysis and all this stuff. And I wanted to be a free guy, you know, running outside. So step by step, I decided to study agronomic 00:17:35.380 --> 00:17:35.390 engineer. 00:20:17.330 --> 00:20:17.340 And when you study agronomic engineer, there's a five year study. You have to go through different areas. Cattles, farm, you know, ledges, soil, winemaking, 00:20:17.340 --> 00:20:17.350 fruity culture. So I decided to became a fruity culture guy. And then day by day, I decided, well, maybe I can study a second career as a winemaker. And I 00:20:17.350 --> 00:20:17.370 decided to study winemaking. And after that I decided to travel in the world. So I got a job in Australia, and my first job was in a winery, and then I got 00:20:17.370 --> 00:20:17.400 in love with all that experience. Then I traveled to another winery in Australia, and then I moved to another winery in California. So after that, I 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:17.410 really got in love with this very special world of wine. And of course, my father was doing a quiet job behind me, trying to push me in a friendly way to 00:20:17.410 --> 00:21:27.590 become a winemaker. So for me, it has been a very natural process to become a winemaker and to be today the winemaker of Montes. 00:21:27.890 --> 00:21:28.010 Tobias: That's a great story. And you have already mentioned it, your father was pushing you in a friendly way, because that's what I wanted to ask, though 00:21:28.010 --> 00:21:44.540 there was not a lot of convincing necessary, or some pressure from his side? 00:21:44.840 --> 00:21:44.850 Aurelio: No, never. And my father always has been very respectful of our decisions, but he was very smart. At that time. You have to remember that in the 80's, 00:21:44.850 --> 00:21:44.860 traveling around the world was completely different like today. My kids have been everywhere in the world. You know, today, traveling so easy. But at my 00:21:44.860 --> 00:21:44.870 age, I'm 50 years old, when I was 16, 17, traveling was a luxury thing. And so my father invited me to my first trip outside of Chile, was to Napa in a 00:21:44.870 --> 00:21:44.880 technical trip. So, I met many winemakers, I met many people. So my father told me, I want to invite you only for you to have fun. So I traveled around. I had 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:44.890 so much fun. I visited all Napa. I got in love with these beautiful, beautiful wineries, vineyards and all the stuff. And then after that, my father never 00:21:44.890 --> 00:21:44.900 pushed me. So what was everything so natural. So it was so natural that when I finished my career and I finish all my trip outside of Chile, I became the 00:21:44.900 --> 00:21:44.910 winemaker of a winery for almost eight years, another winery, a Chilean winery. So only in the year 2007 as a family, as a father and son, we decided together 00:21:44.910 --> 00:21:44.920 to start working together. And the reason is very simple. You know that working with the family is so beautiful and wonderful. But normally there's a process 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:44.930 that's quite tough because your father is going to be always your father, and as a son you're going to be the son. Always. You never stop being a son. You 00:21:44.930 --> 00:21:44.940 never stop being a father. So the fights at the beginning was quite strong. But it's part of the process. You know, when you get older, you understand 00:21:44.940 --> 00:21:44.950 everything. And today with my father, we're so good friends. We share not only winepassion. We also both, we're pilots, helicopter pilots. We love to sail. We 00:21:44.950 --> 00:24:03.870 love to be outside. We love to travel. So we're very similar, but at the same time different. 00:24:04.290 --> 00:24:04.300 Tobias: Yeah. But what you describe, I think, is very true, because I know your father as being a very strong person. And from the story you've told me, you know, he 00:24:04.300 --> 00:24:04.310 gets fired from his job, but still, you know, has the will and the power to, you know, go for his goal producing a premium wine. I mean, that takes some 00:24:04.310 --> 00:24:37.400 guts. And now working with him together, I think, there have been moments that are a little bit, yeah, tough, I guess. Right? 00:24:38.090 --> 00:24:38.810 Aurelio: Definitely, yes. Definitely, yes, and especially when you are a young winemaker, you after, imagine, I worked in Australia, I worked in California, 00:24:38.810 --> 00:24:38.820 then I worked in France, and then I worked for eight years in another winery. So when I became the winemaker of Montes, I came with many ideas. But in front 00:24:38.820 --> 00:24:38.830 of me was this strong and powerful guy called Aurelio Montes father, telling me, be careful. You know, Montes has style. Montes is a company that has been 00:24:38.830 --> 00:24:38.840 doing great things and we have to be careful. We can't change things like this. You know, we're like a big boat that when we want to turn to left, we need to 00:24:38.840 --> 00:24:38.850 go slowly, you know, moving the boat till you reach the point. But you can't confuse consumers, you know, from one year to another one changing completely 00:24:38.850 --> 00:24:38.860 the style of the wine. Because at the end, people get confused and say, What is Montes? Is this style, or this style? Or what it is? Right? So, but with all 00:24:38.860 --> 00:24:38.870 the new energy coming into the company, it was very strong, I was very decided to change, to make some changes. I did some at the beginning, not many, And 00:24:38.870 --> 00:26:08.200 then started getting a little bit like, with some extra energy and a little bit angry of, we need to go faster, we need to do these things, and that. 00:26:08.710 --> 00:26:08.720 And then, with my father, we started, you know, discussing, and but at the end of the day, you know, without discussing, without telling the truth face by 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:08.730 face, you know, being honest in what you think, is impossible to keep going. It's hard to, to really evolve as a company, if you don't discuss. You need to 00:26:08.730 --> 00:26:08.740 to put your point on the table, and then discuss as an adult, and then make the best decision for the company. Not for you, for the company. And that's why it 00:26:08.740 --> 00:26:08.750 took us three, four years. That was horrible, to be honest with you. It was a lot of fights every day. But after that, the first three years, you know, each 00:26:08.750 --> 00:26:08.760 one understood that it was really important to give a space for each one. So I give some space for my father, my father give some space to me. So we put 00:26:08.760 --> 00:27:10.820 together and we start working together. 00:27:11.510 --> 00:27:11.760 Tobias: Wow, that's great to hear that it really worked out that well. Maybe, you know, we have talked about Montes now in a very self-understood way, but maybe some 00:27:11.760 --> 00:27:34.190 listeners haven't really heard about Montes, which is hard to believe. But just tell us, where in Chile are you located, as a starting point? 00:27:34.190 --> 00:27:35.060 Aurelio: Yeah. Well, Montes as a winery and most of our vineyards are located in Colchagua Valley. Colchagua Valley, it's a very beautiful valley, 150 km south 00:27:35.060 --> 00:27:35.070 from Santiago, the capital of Chile. And then, Colchagua Valley goes from the Andes, from the limit, from Argentina, up to the ocean. So it's a long valley 00:27:35.070 --> 00:27:35.080 with so many different microclimates. And inside of Colchagua Valley, we're specifically in two places, in Apalta Valley. From the top ten wines from 00:27:35.080 --> 00:27:35.090 Chile, five come from Apalta. And then we're also in Marchihue, there's another vineyard. It's a newer place. It's not new, but it's newer than Apalta that is 00:27:35.090 --> 00:27:35.100 closer to the ocean. So two places, completely different terroir. One is mountain, beautiful landscape, forest green, rainy. And the other one is a 00:27:35.100 --> 00:27:35.110 semi-desert, only separated by, believe it or not, by 40 km. You cannot tell me, no, you're crazy. How? In 40 km can change that much? Well, there's a 00:27:35.110 --> 00:27:35.120 geographical situation. But at the end, in Marchihue rains half of what we get in Apalta in the same valley, and Marchihue is hills, Apalta is mountains. So, 00:27:35.120 --> 00:27:35.130 completely different landscape, different type of soil. But as Montes, even that we have the winery in Colchagua we're much open to Chile than Colchagua. 00:27:35.130 --> 00:27:35.140 We have vineyards in the north in Zapallar. That's 150 km to the north of Santiago, to the coast, closer to the coast. We have vineyards in Zapallar, in 00:27:35.140 --> 00:27:35.150 Casablanca, Leyda. We also have, we also buy grapes in Maule, in Itata. And our latest crazy project is in Patagonia, 1.200 km south from the vineyard. We 00:27:35.150 --> 00:27:35.160 planted a new project that is a Chiloé Island. It's like being in Alaska to put you on the map, to be simple, killer whales, you know, sea lions, penguins, and 00:27:35.160 --> 00:30:10.900 a vineyard. 00:30:10.900 --> 00:30:20.130 Tobias: Yeah. And just to make it clear for the listeners, going south in Chile is like going north in the northern hemisphere, right? 00:30:20.340 --> 00:30:20.910 Aurelio: Exactly. 00:30:21.360 --> 00:30:22.260 Tobias: It gets colder. 00:30:22.260 --> 00:30:24.500 Aurelio: It's a good point. 00:30:24.500 --> 00:30:26.320 Yeah, it's opposite than in Germany. 00:30:26.320 --> 00:30:33.180 South for us means rainy, lakes, glaciers and north means desert, warm weather. 00:30:33.750 --> 00:30:36.570 You know you would you get closer to the equator line. 00:30:37.020 --> 00:30:37.800 So it's warmer, yes. 00:30:39.060 --> 00:30:43.680 Tobias: Right. And patagonia could also mean Argentina and Chile, right? 00:30:43.950 --> 00:30:45.090 Aurelio: Exactly. Patagonia. 00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:46.200 Tobias: It's both countries. 00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:48.330 Aurelio: Patagonia, it's a big concept. 00:30:48.390 --> 00:30:51.030 It's all the South of Chile and Argentina. 00:30:51.990 --> 00:30:53.820 And in Chile, Patagonia is greener. 00:30:54.540 --> 00:30:55.920 It's more forest. 00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:03.570 In Argentina it's dryer, it's like Flatland. 00:31:03.980 --> 00:31:12.230 In Chile, it's always it's mountains, rain, glaciers, rivers, strong rivers. 00:31:12.740 --> 00:31:16.400 So, yeah, it's different, but it's the same patagonia. 00:31:16.760 --> 00:31:16.960 Tobias: Yeah, yeah. Well, I had some great Pinot noirs from Patagonia. I think it's a very, very exciting region. And talking about a grape variety, what are the 00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:30.170 main and most important grape varieties for Montes? 00:31:30.620 --> 00:31:30.630 Aurelio: Well, that's a really, really good question, because if you go back, let's talk about numbers first. So, in numbers, in volume, Cabernet Sauvignon, it is the 00:31:30.630 --> 00:31:30.640 most important grape for Montes. But in terms of image, in terms of what people really follow, it's Carménère. Montes is by far known as the, if not the best, 00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:30.650 one of the best producers of Carménère in Chile. So, people really follow us for the Carménères. So number one will be Cabernet Sauvignon, number two 00:31:30.650 --> 00:31:30.660 Carménère. The thing is that to answer that question, I want to explain you a little bit longer in terms of Cabernet Sauvignon in Chile, it's easier to 00:31:30.660 --> 00:31:30.670 produce than other grapes. Chile is a perfect terroir for Cabernet Sauvignon. You can plant it here, here, here, in different places, and always going to be 00:31:30.670 --> 00:31:30.680 at least good, then could be very good, or excellent, or exceptional. Okay? Carménère is a different, huge challenge. That's why I always say the most 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:30.690 complicated grape to grow is Carmenere and Pinot Noir, also quite complicated. But Carménère in Chile, when you find the place could be a gold mine. But to 00:31:30.690 --> 00:31:30.700 find a place, it's so difficult. If you plant in an incorrect place, the wine could be undrinkable. So that's why, as an Chilean industry, we're putting a 00:31:30.700 --> 00:31:30.710 lot of effort to find more specific places for Carménère to improve, even better the quality that we have today in the market. So, that's why in term of 00:31:30.710 --> 00:33:25.890 volume will be Cabernet Sauvignon, in terms of image will be Carménère. 00:33:26.430 --> 00:33:26.590 Tobias: Yeah, because that's what I have in mind, when I think about Chile, it's Carménère, because that's where the grape variety really shines. But I didn't 00:33:26.590 --> 00:33:26.670 know that it's so hard to actually grow it and find the perfect spots. And that actually leads me back to your father, because I've heard you two made wine 00:33:26.670 --> 00:33:26.780 together with Montes Wings. And this is also Carménère from what I know. Please tell us a little bit about this project and why it's celebrating a Carménère 00:33:26.780 --> 00:34:09.850 anniversary. Because I haven't really heard about that. 00:34:09.850 --> 00:34:09.860 Aurelio: Yeah, well, two things. First of all, we make wines together all the time. But Wings, it has a specific reason why we call Wings, and why we put both names. 00:34:09.860 --> 00:34:09.870 Because we're both Aurelios Montes, and today I'm the technical director of the company. But my father gets really involved in the decisions. But with Wings 00:34:09.870 --> 00:34:09.880 was something different. First of all, when you analyze the terroir for Carménère, Carménère needs always better soil. Carménère loves deep soil, 00:34:09.880 --> 00:34:09.890 richer soil, because Carménère produces very low yield. But you need more concentration. The vine is very equilibrated, so never grow too big. So with 00:34:09.890 --> 00:34:09.900 good soil, the vines grow in a perfect equilibrium with small clusters. So it works perfectly. And they also like good drainage, so you don't have to have 00:34:09.900 --> 00:34:09.910 water around Carménère. But one day, many years ago, my father, before I became the winemaker of Montes, my father decided to plant a Carménère in the steepest 00:34:09.910 --> 00:34:09.920 plantation and the highest elevation in Apalta. He planted Carménère the anti-soil, how I call it, the anti-soil Cabernet. So this is the wonderful 00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:09.930 thing about winemaking that one plus one is not necessary two. Could be ten or could be minus five. Doesn't matter. You need to try. So my father put this 00:34:09.930 --> 00:34:09.940 vineyard, and for many years we produced this different Carménère. So one day, I told my father, you know what? I really love this Carménère. This Carménère 00:34:09.940 --> 00:34:09.950 is a little more feminine, it's really elegant. It's not the purple angel, the big boy, really full of flavors that people love it. So I said, let's show the 00:34:09.950 --> 00:34:09.960 world that we also can produce a different style of Carménère. So, my father wasn't that convinced. So, I proved him that in blind tasting that the 00:34:09.960 --> 00:36:33.920 Carménère was good enough to be released. So, he got convinced, and then he told me, Aurelio, we need to add something for the end of the wine. 00:36:34.160 --> 00:36:34.170 Okay, I solved that problem. I have been trying different grapes to improve the finish of the wine, and I feel that Cabernet Franc is the best, the best 00:36:34.170 --> 00:36:34.180 combination for this wine. And father got crazy. He said no, the Cabernet Franc is not a blender for Cabernet. I said no, not normally, no. But in this 00:36:34.180 --> 00:36:34.190 specific wine it's completely different. It's going to match really perfect. So my father will start arguing and I say, okay, let's do something very simple. 00:36:34.190 --> 00:36:34.200 Choose another grape and let's do it in a blind tasting. And we're five winemakers, so we tasted blind. And finally the five winemakers, including my 00:36:34.200 --> 00:36:34.210 father, we chose the Carménère with Cabernet Franc Blend. That's not Blend, it's only 15%, but the wine, so at the end of the day, we put wings to the 00:36:34.210 --> 00:36:34.220 wine, because you need two wings to fly. So, without my father's agreement, I would be alone with one wing trying to fly in a round spin. So, with the two 00:36:34.220 --> 00:36:34.230 wings together, convinced that the wine was really special. We allowed the angel to fly. So, this Carménère is unique from the highest plantation that we 00:36:34.230 --> 00:36:34.240 have in Apalta. It's not only for the people from Germany. We're not Argentina, so we don't talk about altitude. We talk about inclination. It's like Germany. 00:36:34.240 --> 00:36:34.250 Doesn't mean that when you're in a steep inclination, not necessarily. You're too high. It's only 340 m high, so it's not that high. But the base of the 00:36:34.250 --> 00:36:34.260 winery is in 200 m, so it's 150 m, almost 200 m higher than the winery. So it's really important for the effect. Better drainage, cooler climate. We get the 00:36:34.260 --> 00:38:45.980 breeze every day from the south of Chile. So it's a very special place. 00:38:46.130 --> 00:38:48.040 Tobias: And the Carménère Anniversary. 00:38:48.040 --> 00:38:49.100 What was that story? 00:38:49.130 --> 00:38:51.760 What kind of anniversary? 00:38:52.930 --> 00:38:52.940 Aurelio: We are celebrating this year with all our Carménère the 30th anniversary of discovery of the Carménère. In Carménère, the grape Carménère was brought to 00:38:52.940 --> 00:38:52.950 Chile by mistake in the 1800's as Merlot, and only in the year 1994 with a French expert, French ampelographer, that is the guy that can recognize the 00:38:52.950 --> 00:38:52.960 grapes through the leaf, he told us, you know, this Merlot is not Merlot. You have you have a Blend in the vineyard. It's not only Merlot. You have Merlot, 00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:52.970 but you also have another grape that I can't recognize. So he took some leaf. He went back to France and he called us back and said, you know, you have 00:38:52.970 --> 00:38:52.980 Carménère. And we said, what is Carménère? That Carménère disappeared from France many years ago with the phylloxera pest. So, we say, okay, we have 00:38:52.980 --> 00:38:52.990 something new, and we start planting Carménère. And at the beginning we made so many mistakes because we start planting in different places. Of course, many of 00:38:52.990 --> 00:38:53.000 them were incorrect places. And so, so it has been 30 years of investigation. 30 years of being more precise in the wine-making process. So that's why we're 00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:53.010 celebrating everywhere in the world with the 30th anniversary of Carménère in Chile. 00:40:26.590 --> 00:40:27.920 Tobias: Wow. Congratulations from my side. 00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:30.250 That's, that's really... 00:40:30.250 --> 00:40:31.180 Aurelio: We're happy, we're happy. 00:40:31.180 --> 00:40:31.190 Tobias: Yeah, that's a nice, nice story. One of my favorite subjects in this podcast is climate change. And back in 2013, I've already learned that Chile is really low 00:40:31.190 --> 00:40:31.200 on water. So water from the ground and that having water rights is a very important thing for a lot of winemakers. I'm sure it's still like that, 00:40:31.200 --> 00:40:31.210 although you already told me about rainfalls, but I think water is still a problem, or not having water is a problem. But how did climate change kind of 00:40:31.210 --> 00:41:13.280 has an effect on this? 00:41:13.700 --> 00:41:13.710 Aurelio: Well, climate change has been an issue in all the world, but I have to explain to you something about what is going on in Chile. In Chile, everyone has been 00:41:13.710 --> 00:41:13.720 talking about the water. But from my point of view, it's not only climate change. When I became a winemaker 24 years ago, traveling to Colchagua. 00:41:13.720 --> 00:41:13.730 Colchagua used to be a half of the barley was planted. Today it's 100% planted. So, it's not only that we have less water, it's also that we have been planting 00:41:13.730 --> 00:41:13.740 more and more and more. I'm talking about fruit, corns, whatever. So, people, world is growing, Chilean population is growing. So, we have been planting 00:41:13.740 --> 00:41:13.750 more. So, even if we have the same amount of water, we have more hectares to irrigate. So, that's why also it's another problem. Second, for me the biggest 00:41:13.750 --> 00:41:13.760 problem is that in Chile we have an invest in to solve the problem, because in Chile we have plenty of water. That is not my point of view, is made by 00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:13.770 technical people that the government brought from Israel to analyze our situation. And they came here saying it's crazy. You have plenty of water! You 00:41:13.770 --> 00:41:13.780 have water everywhere. The thing is that we have plenty of water in winter, and then in summer we run out of water. So you need to construct bigger reservoirs. 00:41:13.780 --> 00:43:05.000 And the government, for different reasons here, I'm not going to go inside of politics, but we have an invest in that. 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:17.210 So 00:43:17.210 --> 00:43:17.220 building a few reservoirs will change everything in Chile first. That doesn't mean, I'm not saying that there's no climate change problem with. We're adding 00:43:17.220 --> 00:43:17.230 more problems to the problem. So, but today in the last two years we had a lot of rain. And specifically this year we're full of water, full of water. Rivers 00:43:17.230 --> 00:43:17.240 coming with plenty of water. The snow that we have in the Andes is crazy good. So we have at least for two years, we have a lot of water, but we can't depend 00:43:17.240 --> 00:43:17.250 only on the snow. We need to hold the water in the period that we get rains. So, and also a second problem, I will say the biggest problem that we have here 00:43:17.250 --> 00:43:17.260 in Chile, in the world, sorry, not in Chile, and you can see by the news, is that the average numbers haven't changed a lot. So, the amount of water that we 00:43:17.260 --> 00:43:17.270 get during winter is more or less the same than the last hundred years. The amount of sand, the amount of, you know, the temperature, the peak of 00:43:17.270 --> 00:43:17.280 temperature, it's more or less the same when I talk in average. But here in winter today we're having huge storms that are not usual for Chilean weather. 00:43:17.280 --> 00:43:17.290 So like in Spain, like in Europe 00:44:38.710 --> 00:44:39.060 that from one second to another one, we receive millions of millions of litres, you know, coming all together, and then we don't get water for one month. And 00:44:39.060 --> 00:44:39.070 then another big storm. So we are having a more extreme weather that's it. We need to change our way of living. We need to be more prepared for all these 00:44:39.070 --> 00:44:39.080 extreme weather, extreme heat. The average heat in Chile has been the same for the last, you know, how many years. But today we're having one week of peak of 00:44:39.080 --> 00:44:39.090 temperature. Totally unusual. 40 degrees, that's completely unusual for Chile. So, that's why we need to be careful how we analyze this climate change. It's 00:44:39.090 --> 00:45:34.020 not only heat, it's not only that we have less water. It's a combination of different situations that we need to adapt. 00:45:34.020 --> 00:45:34.440 Tobias: So, you have to be very innovative, I guess. And I think you're really most important wine or wine series, Montes Alpha, is actually a pretty good example 00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:34.450 for that. Because I've heard that you are not, you know, resting on your laurels, but you're really innovating with this wine, talking about reducing 00:45:34.450 --> 00:45:34.460 water use, but also in the vinification process, trying to, you know, use less extraction and stuff like that. Please tell us about this process of, you know, 00:45:34.460 --> 00:46:20.750 developing such iconic wines over the years without, you know, disturbing the positive experience by the customer. 00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:20.850 Aurelio: Yeah. It's, uh, as you said, we as Montes, we are known by as being a pioneer in innovative winery. We spend all our time, or every year we do something 00:46:20.850 --> 00:46:20.860 different, trying to learn from the vineyard, from the winery. But I have to tell you something. 80% of the quality come from the vineyard. So as a 00:46:20.860 --> 00:46:20.870 winemaker, we're not magicians. We don't transform bad grapes in good wines. We transform good grapes into good wines. So, all our effort, most of our effort 00:46:20.870 --> 00:46:20.880 has been done at the vineyard. So, the use of water in a responsible way will decrease in half of the use of water. In the past we used to irrigate by, okay, 00:46:20.880 --> 00:46:20.890 it's, we need to add this amount of water. Then we'll start using technology, more technology. Then, you know, thinking about how could be more efficient. 00:46:20.890 --> 00:46:20.900 And now, we use half of the water that we used to use to irrigate the wine with the same result. Second, with all this climate change, I always compare the 00:46:20.900 --> 00:46:20.910 vine with kids. When you're a parent that you're all day taking care of your kids. Use the sweater. Be careful with the water. Don't get wet. At the end, 00:46:20.910 --> 00:46:20.920 you're doing something bad for your kid. You know, my kids are wild. My kids are the kind of kids that they go with t-shirts, you know, in winter to the 00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:20.930 school. 00:47:58.430 --> 00:48:01.890 And if they're cold, they put the jacket. 00:48:01.890 --> 00:48:05.260 But I don't oblige them to use a jacket. 00:48:05.260 --> 00:48:09.210 If it's raining and they get wet, they get wet. 00:48:09.210 --> 00:48:10.530 Doesn't matter. 00:48:10.530 --> 00:48:13.490 They go home, I change the clothes. 00:48:13.490 --> 00:48:15.790 The same with the vineyard. 00:48:15.790 --> 00:48:22.290 The vineyard, for many years we tried to be, we tried to control the vineyard. 00:48:22.290 --> 00:48:26.560 Let's keep clean without any weeds at the vineyard. 00:48:26.560 --> 00:48:27.880 So, very clean. 00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:31.000 Let's keep the vine very, very tight. 00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:37.580 So, can the vineyard, used to look like, we always make a joke, like the German army. 00:48:38.070 --> 00:48:41.860 You're very organized, clean, you're perfect. 00:48:41.860 --> 00:48:44.000 Well, today, not anymore. 00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:49.110 Today, we decided to release the mind, to say, okay, be free. 00:48:49.110 --> 00:48:53.060 So we're working with regenerative agriculture. 00:48:53.060 --> 00:48:58.170 So you go to the vineyard, and there's a lot of grass around. 00:48:58.170 --> 00:49:00.970 A lot of life inside of the soil. 00:49:00.970 --> 00:49:04.100 The canopy of the vineyards are open. 00:49:04.100 --> 00:49:13.730 So let's organize a little bit more hippie, but finally the vines, by their own decision, they have been adapting to 00:49:13.730 --> 00:49:20.240 this climate change alone without spraying anything, without trying to change. 00:49:20.240 --> 00:49:30.130 So, and we have proved that the quality of the vineyard, of the grapes of this wild, wilder vineyard has increased a lot. 00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:37.110 Because you get more equilibrium, more acidity, more freshness, better tannins. 00:49:37.110 --> 00:49:42.860 Everything is better when the vines grow in a more, you know, free way. 00:49:42.860 --> 00:49:52.570 And then at the winery, the same philosophy, if you are producing a premium wine, you don't need to overstrike, you don't 00:49:52.570 --> 00:49:54.560 need to add any product. 00:49:54.560 --> 00:50:03.320 When you're producing cheaper wines, you need to add more things, you know, to the wine to make it drinkable. 00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:12.900 You know, I'm going very to the extreme, but when you're a premium wine, you have to do very slow and small pump overs. 00:50:12.900 --> 00:50:18.320 We don't add anything to the wine, only yeast for the fermentation. 00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:23.830 We finish the fermentation, we age the wine and then we bottle them. 00:50:23.830 --> 00:50:25.340 That's it. Simple! 00:50:25.340 --> 00:50:28.290 So, let's make it simple to express. 00:50:28.290 --> 00:50:29.900 The best terroir of Chile. 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:33.590 That's a little bit the way how we work at the vineyard and at the winery. 00:50:34.940 --> 00:50:36.360 Tobias: But what you said about the characteristic of the wine being, you know, fresh, it's also, I think, something that the wine drinkers prefer more and more. 00:50:36.360 --> 00:50:36.370 I mean, thinking 20 years back or something, people were looking for very fruit driven, very bold, very powerful wines. And I think this has changed a little 00:50:36.370 --> 00:50:36.380 bit. People are concerned when they look on the bottle. Oh, it's 15.5% alcohol, and it has a lot of tannins, a lot of power. I think, people are really looking 00:50:36.380 --> 00:50:36.390 into wines that are a little bit more fresh. So that's, I'm just speculating, this also might be a reason why you also try to, you know, change Montes Alpha 00:50:36.390 --> 00:51:26.740 a little bit. 00:51:27.130 --> 00:51:27.170 Aurelio: Yeah, yeah. At the end, you know, I have to explain everyone that before being a winemaker, I'm a wine drinker, a wine lover. So, I also like to drink wine. 00:51:27.170 --> 00:51:27.210 And I have to recognize that in the past, especially in the New World countries, in the at the beginning of 2000, before 2010, the styles of the wine 00:51:27.210 --> 00:51:27.250 used to be the big boys, the big, you know, Schwarzenegger wines, right? You know. With a lot of muscles, with a lot of energy. But yes, after drinking two 00:51:27.250 --> 00:52:08.440 glasses, you were like, I'm done. You know, I want now to drink a beer or whatever other things. 00:52:08.440 --> 00:52:10.060 Tobias: Yeah, or go to sleep. 00:52:10.060 --> 00:52:10.070 Aurelio: Or go to sleep. We're producing wine. That has to be much more drinkable without losing complexity. Because here there's a small line in between being 00:52:10.070 --> 00:52:10.080 simple, lighter and, you know, and and lighter and complex. So you have to be always working with the complexity without losing, you know. And that's why 00:52:10.080 --> 00:52:10.090 what I explained you before, if you have good grapes, everything is so easy. That's why we spend all the time outside looking for the vineyards, trying to 00:52:10.090 --> 00:52:10.100 get the best from the vineyard, because then you don't have to do anything at the winery. It's only a simple winemaking process. And then let's go to the 00:52:10.100 --> 00:52:10.110 bottle. Fresher, easy to drink, softer tannins. But at the same time, wine that can age. Maybe you have to sacrifice a little bit of a liability. If you ask 00:52:10.110 --> 00:52:10.120 me, Aurelio in the past, how long normally Montes Alpha Cabernet Sauvignon you would recommend to age? 20, 25 years. 00:53:23.560 --> 00:53:23.600 No problem. Nowadays, the wines are drinkable now. You don't need to wait 25 years. So today, 15 years? Of course you can drink it today. That's my target. 00:53:23.600 --> 00:53:23.620 I like to release wines that you can open today and drink it today. But if you want to age for 10, 15 years, no problem. 00:53:45.430 --> 00:53:46.330 Easy. 00:53:46.600 --> 00:53:46.610 Tobias: Yeah, yeah. Very good to hear. And you already said it. You're also a wine lover. And that's a very good point, because we have one question that we try 00:53:46.610 --> 00:53:46.650 to ask all of our guests. So, imagine you are on a deserted island with a huge underground wine cellar, at the perfect temperature, of course. However, you 00:53:46.650 --> 00:54:19.360 are only allowed to store one wine from one vintage. Which one would it be? It doesn't have to be a Montes. It can, of course, but it's only one wine. 00:54:24.750 --> 00:54:27.390 Aurelio: Oh, it's, uh! It's like really, really... 00:54:28.350 --> 00:54:29.700 Tobias: Nobody likes that question. 00:54:33.120 --> 00:55:50.660 Aurelio: I'm 00:55:50.660 --> 00:55:50.670 gonna tell you something. For sure, Pinot noir. Pinot noir. I'm a kind of guy that I love Pinot noir. Don't make me wrong. I love most of the wines in the 00:55:50.670 --> 00:55:50.680 world, and my second best will be Carménère. But if I have to choose one grape forever, or to drink my last bottle of wine will be Pinot noir. I have many 00:55:50.680 --> 00:55:50.690 options, there are many good options on Pinot noir in my cellar. But I have to be honest with you. I have been working so tough in my life to change and to 00:55:50.690 --> 00:55:50.700 promote Pinot noir from Chile that our Outer Limits Pinot Noir is one of the wines that I will drink forever. It's a wine that has been, you know, I have 00:55:50.700 --> 00:55:50.710 been suffering a lot. That's why I told you, Carménère and Pinot noir has been or are the most complicated grapes to grow. But that wine, for me, it's a wine 00:55:50.710 --> 00:55:50.840 that is closer to our perfection, I'm not comparing with other parts of the world, to Chilean perfection. It's one of the wines that I really love it. 00:55:51.500 --> 00:55:57.260 Tobias: And which vintage would be like the most drinkable right now? 00:55:57.500 --> 00:55:59.600 Just as a recommendation for our listeners as well. 00:55:59.600 --> 00:56:05.480 So we're talking about Pinot Noir Outer Limits from Montes. How do they age? 00:56:06.050 --> 00:56:06.060 Aurelio: They age wonderful. I just opened some beautiful wines last week, and for many years, 2015 is a year that I will recommend you to drink. Now, with that 00:56:06.060 --> 00:56:06.070 beautiful light evolution, with that beautiful acidity of that year. That will be one of my most favorite years. And as a second option will be 2021. But also 00:56:06.070 --> 00:56:33.660 it's an amazing year. I will wait a little bit longer for 2021. But, if you don't find 15, 21 can be an amazing year. 00:56:45.430 --> 00:56:45.440 Tobias: That's a very good tip. And yeah, I think 21 has a better availability. Maybe you can also tell me something about 2013 Syrah from your Folly-series. I'm 00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:45.450 just asking this out of personal interest, because I've helped night harvesting the Syrah-grapes when I've visited Montes, and I've actually never have tried 00:56:45.450 --> 00:57:14.520 the wine that I helped producing. Is it still drinkable? 00:57:14.610 --> 00:57:14.670 Aurelio: Yeah, completely, completely drinkable. Folly, it's a wine, it's a wine that has been designed that we decided to produce as a big boy. It's one of the 00:57:14.670 --> 00:57:14.690 wines that we don't like to change, the style is what people like it, what people follow for this wine, and the ability of that wine, if not the best of 00:57:14.690 --> 00:57:14.710 Montes, is one of the best to age. You drink the wine for 2001 and it's crazy good. 2013, it was a warmer year in terms of the summer, so was a good year, 00:57:14.710 --> 00:57:14.730 good year to age. Not as long maybe as other years, but I tried, as I told you, because we're trying now, we're doing a vertical taste of all our icon wines. 00:57:14.730 --> 00:57:14.740 And 2013 is great today. Today is, if someone have a bottle of Folly 2013. 00:58:17.200 --> 00:58:17.770 You have to drink it now because it's beautiful. It's beautiful. 00:58:17.790 --> 00:58:18.860 Tobias: Oh, wow. 00:58:18.860 --> 00:58:21.250 I have to try to get my hands on a bottle of that. 00:58:22.240 --> 00:58:24.130 Aurelio: We have to send you a bottle, so you can try it. 00:58:24.220 --> 00:58:25.240 Tobias: Yeah, you should. 00:58:26.380 --> 00:58:29.980 Okay, to end our very nice conversation, I have one last question, because I know that it's a problem for a lot of wineries. 00:58:29.980 --> 00:58:47.380 How is the next generation coming up and how big are the chances that Montes stays in family ownership? 00:58:47.710 --> 00:58:48.360 Aurelio: Boy. Wow, wow, wow. That's, uh, yeah, it's a complicated answer, because I have four kids, the same as my father. I'm not going to oblige them to follow my 00:58:48.360 --> 00:58:49.030 steps. Hopefully one of them, today, they're very young. My oldest daughter is 15, and my youngest daughter is 6 years old. I have three daughters and one 00:58:49.030 --> 00:58:49.670 son. And, of course I'm going to do my best to show them the beautiful side of Montes. Today, I have to tell you something, I feel very proud. All of them 00:58:49.670 --> 00:59:27.690 want to be a winemaker. 00:59:28.140 --> 00:59:28.530 Tobias: Nice. 00:59:28.950 --> 00:59:33.390 Aurelio: So at least till today, I have done a good job, but... 00:59:34.200 --> 00:59:41.910 Tobias: You should record a video, you know, of them saying it, so that you can like play it to them over and over 00:59:41.910 --> 00:59:42.410 Aurelio: Every year, yeah. But it's something that we, we talked about this and, maybe not as a winemaker. Maybe they can get involved in other areas, but I would 00:59:42.410 --> 00:59:42.420 love to have at least one of them, my oldest daughter is the one that's closer. She loves to taste. She loves to smell. She loves to try new things. It's a 00:59:42.420 --> 00:59:42.430 more open mind. But, well, I need to wait. But yeah, it's something that we are worry and hopefully we're going to do a good job as a family to keep going i 01:00:17.290 --> 01:00:17.920 n the business. 01:00:18.610 --> 01:00:18.880 Tobias: Yeah, well, I'll keep my fingers crossed. And last but not least, just to let our listeners know why they should try a wine from Chile, why they should try a 01:00:18.880 --> 01:00:31.690 wine from Montes. In quick words. 01:00:32.140 --> 01:00:34.760 Aurelio: First of all, Chile is a unique wine, a unique country, or a unique wine producer. 01:00:34.780 --> 01:00:35.110 And with that, if I have to describe Chile in one word, I will say diversity. We have a crazy amount of the diverse terroir and places. And why Montes? 01:00:35.110 --> 01:00:35.450 Because if you want to taste, the pureness of quality wine from Chile and terroir from Chile, Montes is, if not the best example, is one of the best 01:00:35.450 --> 01:00:35.790 example of the best wines from Chile. We work 100% of our time. We're a family of winemakers that we put all our focus on quality, on the terroir, on the 01:00:35.790 --> 01:00:36.130 taste of Chilean wines. We don't want to copy anyone in the world. So, Chile is unique. So, given an option to try good wines from Chile, and if you want to 01:00:36.130 --> 01:01:37.390 try premium wines from Chile, Montes, it is the option to choose. 01:01:37.390 --> 01:01:41.980 Tobias: Wow, that's a very good way to end this interview with you, Aurelio. 01:01:42.040 --> 01:01:43.090 Thank you very much. 01:01:43.210 --> 01:01:46.090 And, yeah, take care and hope to see you soon. 01:01:46.510 --> 01:01:50.260 Aurelio: Oh, thank you, Tobias, for your time and it has been great to talk with you. 01:01:50.290 --> 01:01:54.250 Tobias: Ja, und ich freue mich natürlich darauf, wenn es beim nächsten Mal wieder heißt. 01:01:55.270 --> 01:01:55.690 Aurelio: Bei Anruf. 01:01:57.670 --> 01:01:58.180 Tobias: Wein.