Abenteuer Reportagefotografie – Podcast über visuelles Storytelling

Kai Behrmann: Visueller Storyteller und Fotograf

Since 11/2016 426 Episoden

"Open Your Eyes" Festival: Weltklasse-Doppel von Fotografie und Wissenschaft

OPEN YOUR EYES in Zürich: Ein – als Plädoyer zum Verständnis der 17 Nachhaltigen Entwicklungsziele der UN. Die Fotografien werden in den Strassen, Plätzen und Parks von Zürich ausgestellt, um die Grenzen zu den Betrachtern zu durchbrechen.

17.09.2023 99 min

Zusammenfassung & Show Notes

OPEN YOUR EYES in Zürich: Ein Festival kreativer Fotografie – als Plädoyer zum Verständnis der 17 Nachhaltigen Entwicklungsziele der UN. Die Fotografien werden in den Strassen, Plätzen und Parks von Zürich ausgestellt, um die Grenzen zu den Betrachtern zu durchbrechen und sie in den Prozess der Reflexion dieser Werke einzubeziehen, die rund um den Globus entstanden sind und die soziale, politische, wissenschaftliche und kulturelle Vielfalt unserer Welt aus einem anderen Blickwinkel zeigen.

Ein Bericht über ein einzgartiges Festival-Konzept mit Stimmen vom künstlerischen Leiter Lois Lammerhuber sowie einigen der ausstellenden Fotograf:innen. Darunter George Steinmetz, Chris de Bode, Ana María Arévalo Gosen und Esther Haase.

Außerdem ziehen Thomas Pöhler und Ulrike Schumann vom "Fotopodcast" und ich ein Fazit zur Eröffnung. Pia Parolin berichtet ebenfalls, wie sie die Premiere von "Open Your Eyes" erlebt hat.

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Transkript

That's where something was born, which I really consider to be a completely new format. Because everything I know as a self-employed worker is always a report about something. And this report is simply a report and never has a solution. So you say, okay, what do we do now? Nothing. You're at home and you say, I'll buy a Kalashnikov or I don't want it at all anymore or I'll try to suppress it. But with DTH, the offer came to put solutions side by side. That means world-class science meets world-class photography. Yes, world-class science meets world-class photography. That is the motto at the Open Your Eyes Festival in Zurich. And the words were from Lois Lammerhuber, the director of the photo festival La Gassili Baden Photo. And yes, with the festival in Zurich, he now has a second, a very ambitious festival. I was allowed to be there during the opening as part of the media days. Unfortunately, I couldn't be there for the full four days in Zurich, but I had to leave again after two days. And that's why I was only able to draw a conclusion with Thomas Poehler and Ulrike Schumann from the photo podcast. That's why I asked Pia Parolin, who was also on site, to send me a voice message with her impressions of the full media days with all the programs that were included there and also with a tour. Through the exhibition. Speaking of a tour through the exhibition, I am very happy to have received the audios of the photographers who each found a few words in front of their pictures, what they want to express in their pictures, what the projects are about. Yes, and that's exactly what you hear here in this podcast episode. It is an invitation to travel to Zurich and to deal with the most urgent problems of our time, both on a scientific level and on a photographic level. Before we hear Lois Lammerhuber himself, the artistic director of this festival, a few words that can be read in the foreword of the festival's catalogue. There he writes. With pictures full of magic, the city of Zurich becomes a gallery. We are deeply convinced that it is our duty to constantly deal with the future of our existence and concepts for dealing with nature and all of us living together. With the awareness and importance of the 17 Sustainable Development Goals of the United Nations, a team with years of exhibition experience and high-quality expertise in photojournalism and photo art developed the idea of Open Your Eyes, a concept for a festival that invites us to think about the world we live in. The agenda of the 17 Sustainable Development Goals was adopted in September 2015 by all 193 member states of the United Nations and offers a reference frame for a peaceful and just coexistence in a global society. The exhibited works are researched information, journalistic information and artistic expression. These photographs are not to be understood as illustrations of the 17 sustainable development goals, but as comments and notes in the sense of Cornel Kappas, concerned photographer. This expression was chosen by the Hungarian-American photographer to describe works that go beyond the documentation of events and show them with a humanitarian impulse. A very ambitious festival with a unique concept that it is really worth visiting. The exhibitions are still to be seen until October 15th in the center of Zurich. If you have the opportunity to stop by, you should definitely do it. It's worth it. The opening in this episode about the Open Your Eyes Festival in Zurich is made by Lois Lammerhuber. Then there is a interim conclusion by me, Ulrike and Thomas from Fotopodcast. Then there is the overall conclusion by Pia Parolin. And at the end some audio impressions by photographers who exhibit their pictures on site. So, and now it starts with Lois Lammerhuber, who will give us a little background knowledge zur Entstehung des Festivals gibt. I am not the festival there, I am the artistic director and I work in certain areas, because if it is necessary to explain the content to sponsors, then you are the one who is needed. But in essence, I am responsible for the creative design there, and I am very happy about that. The fact that our office does all kinds of work again is another story, but the topic there is once again challenging. I think it is simply the greatest advice that we as journalists can give, because we are left with a highly political agenda. It is about the 17 sustainable development goals and in my opinion they have been approved by the decision-making of 193 states, and I am sure that half of them will not comply with everything possible. But this is in line with human rights and, from my personal point of view, If you read through it, it's a timetable of how we're going to do it. That can live together reasonably for the next decades worldwide. That's something like behavioral measures, if you will, like the new ten commandments. So, very simple possibilities of balance between the different speeds in the world, between the genders, north-south, rich-poor, everything, the environment, of course. But, and I think that was the clever approach, it also takes into account economic growth. I think that gave many states the opportunity to agree. And to take that as a theme and then to illustrate it through world-class photography. There is of course only a very limited pool of possibilities, because these topics are very complex and you need work that is under the title of long-term projects. And there is actually only one magazine in the world and a few others that have done something in part, but in essence it is broken down on National Geographic. They had the means to send people to work for half a year, a whole year, somewhere. And that's how we experienced it yesterday, George Steinmetz, ten years, so who finances that? It's out of date, it won't happen anymore with National Geographic. But it still happens in the photo world. Photographers have started to do it on their own, and that's extremely valuable. And along these narrative lines you can, with a lot of empathy, I didn't use the wrong word before, illustrate these relationships, but lead them into a narrative that is full of empathy, and pick people up. These are sometimes hard topics, but because of the way in which they are researched, justified and ultimately photographed, they are accessible to every man and woman. And then it took a very long time until Zurich became possible because of the... It is very complex to organize something in a city with many stakeholders. It took almost three years. In this time we found a partner. This is the ETH, the Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule. They came on board by pure chance. I have another customer. This is CERN. For many years we have made books for CERN. And we also advise them on communication issues. And seven or eight years ago they came to us, after they failed at advertising agencies, and said, can you think of something? We currently have the Large Hadron Collider, which is designed until 2040, but we have to decide now how to proceed. We are developing a concept for the Future Circular Collider. How can we communicate this if we do not know what we are researching, do not know what it costs and do not know what will come out of it? And then we came up with the idea to bring the dreams of man into it. That means we built steles that look very nice, made of high-tech glass, which means that the appearance must somehow symbolize high-tech. That means it is brushed aluminum and shines day and night from the inside, So, CO2 footprint may not be ideal, but the appearance meets the demand. And on the one hand, it is very shortened, pictures are used from the existing technology, which are simply graphic, It's just an illusion of complexity, of... And on the other hand we show pictures of the dreams of humanity, a longer life, a healthier life, better schools and so on. And this has been wandering through Europe for many years and now it is opening in Zurich at the beginning of September. And three quarters of a year ago I was asked to come to Zurich to clarify the organizational and I got to know the aforementioned Günther Disotori I met Günther Dissoudory, and the first sentence he said in the meeting was, you can imagine, and I tell a little bit from my biography, and of course I mention the Open Your Eyes festival in Zurich. And I really notice that in his physical condition, he went through such a ruckus, and he was actually a little bit almost restless until the conversation was over. He said, do you have a few more minutes? I said, sure. He said, I am a physicist and I have worked in CERN and it is my baby there, among other things, but the SDGs interest me even more. And so we started talking and something was born, which I really think is a completely new format. Because everything I know as a self-employed artist is always a report about something. Der Bericht ist einfach ein Bericht. You really have to put a call sign behind it and it never has a solution approach. But journalism is also meant to report as objectively as possible, to consider as many categories as possible about a state, about a situation. And then you see it on TV, it doesn't have to be photography, or you read a text, a play, you see it, then you see it and say, okay, and what do we do now? You go home and say, I'll buy a Kalashnikov, or I don't want to anymore, or I'll try to suppress it. But with the ETH, the offer came to put solutions side by side. That means, world-class science meets world-class photography. The ETH is the 7th most important university in the world, after a certain ranking that is set every year. So they are influential. In front of you are only Anglo-Saxon universities. In continental Europe they are the leader of the pack, with a big lead. They have money, they have many students, knowledge is created there, a lot of know-how is created there. And they are always focusing on these sustainable development goals. And now, from side to side, the narrative strands of the photographers, mainly from TPS, or the Photo Society, the National Geographic photographers, with scientific results. And that above all the definition of the SDGs in a way that you can understand as a normal person, I think that has never existed before. And you just have to do that. It was really at the tip of the iceberg to finance it, because these SDGs are political. And also the potential sponsors, you think Zurich, such a rich city, they make themselves a bit of a shirt. Because it is a very high demand. And I also noticed that the way of thinking between Switzerland and Germany is different. Germany is a bigger country. The barriers are more open. The financing mainly comes from German companies, which are located in Switzerland and have their appearances there. But most of the money is German. They are also financed by the Foto Festival. The ITH also pays for it. But it is really very, very special, it is much smaller than in Baden, we did not get permission for that. We have the lake there, we play along the lake, but we wanted a position in the water. Yes, there I learned that there is underwater archaeology, there are people who are responsible for the corpse of Kaulquappen, their whole department. And he explains to them, that if the sun is shining under his plate, then the spawns will be shadowed. I say, and what is my gray sky? That's something else, that's nature. But we can't intentionally negatively influence the spawns. So there you learn a lot, also about stakeholder interest and interest balance. And exactly, you have to recognize it as justified, that's great. Insofern haben wir ganz vieles nicht umsetzen können, wovon wir träumen würden. Zum Beispiel der Pfarrer der Kathedrale, das heißt dort Großmünster, hat angeboten, wir spielen mal einen Turm. Der zuständige Mann für den Denkmalschutz hat gesagt, das ist mir wurscht, was der Pfarrer Siegrecht macht. Also so hat er es nicht gesagt, er hat es auf Spielzeugtisch gesagt. Denn wenn ich das genehmige, und ich müsste es nach den Vorschriften eigentlich genehmigen, then I get a shitstorm from conservative citizens of Zurich saying, they are defrauding our cathedral, that's not possible. In the center of the city there are also three churches, the Grand Minister, the Women's Minister and St. Peter. And they are along the route and are of course right at these topics. Ideal variety. For example, George Steinmetz, because we saw him yesterday, the pictures he showed us yesterday are hanging on a church. World food on the church. And in the backyard of this church you have Jodie Cobb with 21st Century Slavery, or Ana Maria Revolugos with the situation of women at the fall of Venezuela. Where there are also laws, that if you as a woman or as a citizen are taken into custody for a reason, after 45 days you would have to get a trial or be released. Years go by there. And these are of course incredibly powerful pictures. Because it's another illustration. Let's go through it a bit. But the story about 21st century slavery, you really have to let yourself be absorbed by it. Jody Cobb says that, according to her research, 28 million people live as slaves on the world. That's four times more than during the whole history of the slave trade. And she says that it's all just out of greed, because everything has to become even more profitable. And she says, as far as she could research, the slave trade as we know it, it only ended because it was no longer worth it, because there were other possibilities. It was too expensive to send them over there, but the people who are enslaved here, it's partly very easy. India is a great example, where there is a lot of cheap production. And people come to factories, they are given 20 rupees as a dowry, and they can't get out of the number for the rest of their lives. Because they can't earn the 20 rupees anymore, so they can give it back. And of course, to the expansion of the woman's body, there is child labor all day long, up to the abduction. And these are topics that touch the heart. It's fantastic. Or Randy Olsen is also there. James Fallon is also there. Randy Olsen has photographed this huge plastic story for National Geographic. And he says, according to his estimates, 500 million, probably 1 billion people live from plastic. They don't produce plastic, they collect plastic, they prepare it again, they recycle it and it comes back into the material cycle. And he says, if only China would decide, 10% less plastic means that 50, 60, 70 million people have no income. That is, those who are at the bottom of the income scale, that is, if they lose their dollar per day or a dollar fifty per day, then it is life-threatening. And I think these are great topics. If you have the opportunity to participate in something like this, and in general with these partnerships like the ETH, then nothing more is possible. And it is a highly political topic. Now follows a short interim conclusion of the first two media days in Zurich for the opening of the Open Your Eyes Festival with Thomas Poehler and Ulrike Schumann from the Foto-Podcast and me. It has become a nice tradition that whenever we meet, we sit together again. Hello, dear listeners. We sat down, Kai, hello Kai. Hello. Thomas. Hello. And me. We'll make a short interim conclusion because we have a half day of Open Your Eyes Festival behind us with a lot of input. Yesterday evening there was already getting to know each other on the terrace, and today there was a lot of input through lectures and podium discussions and conversations on the bus. And we want to tell you a little bit about that. Yes, already back in festival mode, shortly after Baden, now in Zurich. Lois and Silvia have not had enough with one festival, now a second one has come along with Open Your Eyes. It's really exciting. We already know a bit about how festivals are going now. We are very spoiled from Baden, we noticed that here. It wasn't that easy to find a quiet place in the hotel. Now we are sitting here in a smoker's lounge. Puh! And luckily there is only audio and not olfactory recording. Because you can smell it. And not only that, there is a planning robber driving by every now and then, so if the sound is not optimal today, we apologize for that, the conditions are a bit difficult today. We really tried everything for the offer. It's Pumsy. But at the moment it's not as loud as before. We tried everything and had to cancel the generous offer to rent an additional room for the recording for 250 francs. That's really crazy. Switzerland is an expensive country and our budget wouldn't have been enough for that. He would have turned off the music in the lounge for a while and we can now sit in the smoking room for about 20 minutes. We want to make good use of these 20 minutes. Fortunately, the weather is so good here in Zurich, that I don't think any smoker will come in here to smoke. It's much nicer outside. We're just coming from a first podium discussion, or several, the opening of the Open Your Eyes festival. We already talked a little bit about it with Lois and Silvia at the conclusion to Baden, so what it's all about. An exciting concept. Yes, and I was also, I am now a natural scientist in my first training and I found it very, very exciting. Pia has already said it several times, how will it work together and what can really bear fruit and is there an impact from natural science? And that's what today's discussion was about, and the questions from the audience. I found it very exciting, and at some points I was surprised that it was very positive for me. I'm curious to hear what Pia's conclusion is when we talk again later. Yes, so it was actually a lot about education, about critical self-education, critical view of images. It was also a lot about ethics and yes, I thought that was really, really good. Yes, I was in advance, because the timeline we have is pretty full. I was a bit skeptical where I thought, well, at some point I had reached a certain capacity to record and... We'll get through it, but it was really so exciting that it was not a problem at all. I would have expected that I would fall into a hole at some point, but no, it was really incredibly interesting discussions, not only on stage, but also during the breaks, or even in the bus, you've already touched on that. And you often have the feeling, why am I not running the recording device right now? And that's why we thought we should sit down and refresh ourselves as long as it's still fresh and see what we've learned from each other. And of course for the listeners as well. Yes, it already started last night. For dinner we sat down with Chris de Bode, a photographer from the Netherlands, who also exhibits here and told us about his work. He has done a lot of photography in Africa for NGOs and has brought an exciting series here. He has asked children for their wishes for the future. Children from poor conditions in developing countries, a few at home. In general, this topic of how children imagine their future, because it is also about the future, the future of our planet. And we wanted to have the recording device with us. I felt the same way on the bus, because I talked to Christian about it. He told me straight away that he was thinking about whether he would still do this work today, and that it would be done differently in terms of ethics, and that the whole photography scene would be rebuilt. Lars Böhring and Gerd joined in and then it really got down to business. Where and how does the photography actually go and what should be the scale now? What is the photographer chosen for? Why? And is that politically correct? And where are the shitstorms? Because again an old white man got an assignment, which was perhaps deliberately chosen because you want to have his perspective. And it really got down to business. And yes, that's super, super exciting, of course. That was also a moment where I thought, damn, I don't have a recording device. That was also a big topic for Chris last night. He found out that the assignments of the NGOs actually go back to him, because they want to choose this way to take photographers from on site, not to send him as a white Dutchman to Africa. And there was the discussion, is it always so good? You might know it yourself, when you get a visit from abroad. From countries that we might find very exotic, and then they come here and suddenly start taking pictures and find things that we don't see anymore. What exactly are you interested in here? You pass by and that's an aspect that you really have to weigh. But at the moment there is a tendency to start a shitstorm without asking questions and thinking about whether it makes sense or not, or would it be better otherwise, or maybe a team. Of course, there is a possibility for that. Lars said that he also worked with, he probably even touched on it, if I understood it correctly, that a database is being built where African photographers are registered. That means, if someone wants to do a project in Africa, he can access this database and has local photographers and can see how they work and can choose someone if he wants to, or put them together into a team. They probably had some nice discussions about that, whether it will take someone's bread away and so on and yes, I think it's a very, very exciting development. Yes, absolutely. And the question of how to shape it more balanced, how to bring in perspectives that we may have been blind to in our media so far. I think is a super exciting topic and this approach to working with the team, can only enrich the whole thing and maybe to provide an argument for why it might be good not to completely to do without western photographers in this world, because it is also a bit about building bridges and, the discourse is then in the western media in a certain way and. A local's point of view might require a bit more explanation. If you can work together in a team to unite these worlds and make it easier for them to access for, the end users here in our societies. I think that would be a viable way in the future. Chris had that as an argument, because he said, of course, I can make it more understandable to my audience. And I can also make sure that it is uninfluenced according to our standards. And at the same time, a collaboration is meaningful, so that you can really get to the local information and feelings. And that you have some background information or things that you might have misjudged, because you're not really in it, and that you can bring them back to life. And I also think that this team spirit actually has a lot of advantages. Yes, this team spirit also extends to the overall concept of this festival, that you try to bring science into the boat, to create a synergy there. To photography, this approach, the scientists who are very, very good at creating studies, producing results, but are not the best at communicating the whole thing so that everyone understands it. And then photography comes into play, which can make things more visible. How have you experienced it so far? We already did a little tour yesterday through the exhibition. The pictures were just about to be brought in by the helpers here in the center of Zurich. Not everyone was there yet, but we've already seen a little bit. We were also a bit skeptical about whether it would all work out like this. But Leus announced to us today that he got a call at half past midnight, I think. All pictures are hanging there. It will probably also be a huge hit for me. But we were a bit hungry yesterday. That this is going to be something. But it worked out well. The workers at St. Peter's, who were supposed to put up the pictures, were a bit nervous. They said they couldn't believe that they were allowed to drill holes in a 1000-year-old wall and felt very strange, but everyone was very committed so that it was finished. I wanted to say something about the communication of the scientists. I've already talked about it with Pia and I can only confirm that. As a scientist, you always want to be proven correctly, and everything has to be neutral and unemotional. Without any feelings, everything has to be provable. And of course, a journalist is supposed to report his own personality, as far as that's possible. And a photographer has a little more freedom. He is not allowed to fake, but he is also allowed to arouse feelings. And to transport these feelings or to convey contact to information through feelings. And that is the impact that is to be achieved here. That through this collaboration, the feelings are addressed and the content can be retrieved from the audience. Yes, I also think that science communication in general is a field where there is a real need for improvement. So that was the conclusion for me today, that I say yes, there can actually be something somewhere, a good synergy. And for those who were there, there was a certain willingness to do so. Of course, the question is always, we have already discussed this, you are in a certain bubble. To what extent can you judge that now? It's really hard to estimate. We are now trying to bring out this spirit, that you all feel touched and engaged as photographers, or as listeners, as readers, to somehow implement that and to participate in these SDGs, in the goals, in the change of the world, whether you read critically or make pictures about it yourself. Yes, maybe carry that in your heart. And then we would have fulfilled a good task here, if we manage to convey this to you. Yes, it's supposed to be a place to reflect, to encourage, to check your own actions, your own way of life. And that's also something that I think is caused by the fact that such an exhibition here in the middle of the city, in such a metropolis. Well, Zurich, a metropolis of 400,000 inhabitants, but it is an important city here, where a lot is happening, very internationally shaped, the whole thing, and to see that here in the center, these pictures, which are partly really, yes, on the, on the, on the knees, these are not simple, beautiful landscape shots that are now painted in the city and adapt to the surrounding panorama, but in this context, next to restaurants, next to boutiques and so on, to see these topics, things that are just bad in our world and don't go well. Whether it's child labor, whether it's exploitation of nature, these are difficult topics, but I think then again realistically, because our world is just not perfect. It's all part of it and maybe one or the other who is a little bothered by seeing something like that, but hopefully also encourages you to put this impulse and not close your eyes to something like that. Yes, I also found an important impulse today from Balog, that for me and friends, so fellow students and also my husband and I, We have often talked about it, that it was actually always a mistake in the way of thinking. That's why I was very welcome to hear that today. What is nature? What is natural? What is cultural landscape? Is man part of this nature or not? Can you calculate it out or in? That's what Pia was also concerned about, that you always calculated these people out and saw nature without them. And that we are of course part of it and cannot calculate ourselves out. That came today and I welcomed it very much because I think it's very important. We are not only responsible, but we also live in it and that is also the split that we have to make here. It's so hard to do without things. But it has to go hand in hand and it can't be done at the expense of individuals or large parts of the people or at the expense of the rest of nature outside of us. And there is a lot to think about and a lot to evaluate. Basically, we won't be able to do it if our governments don't help us. But of course, every little bit we all contribute contributes to making it better. So you can't rely on it. The government will do it. And if the government doesn't tell me to buy organic stuff, I can buy other stuff. No, you always have to get yourself in the game and do what is in your power, if we all want to save it. Yes, the contrasts that are very clear, that clash, but that reflect our world. Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world in which we live and in which everyone does what is actually required. It is so difficult to always remember this in everyday life, in our consumption behavior, in what we do. And not to give up and say, well, the task is so big, I as a small individual can't do much anyway. That's just the attitude that doesn't work either. Yes, that's why it's also in a way the perfect spot to do the exhibitions. Yesterday we saw the contrasts, you see the pictures and look past it and see it in the background. It's this incredible contrast, which is probably necessary and which hopefully will satisfy enough people. To stop, to think and to wake them up a little bit, possibly. Yes, and I would say that was our first interim conclusion. There will certainly be more to come. But we just wanted to report as long as it's still fresh in our heads. Exactly, and now we're looking forward to seeing all the pictures tomorrow. Kai unfortunately has to drive before that. Exactly, for me it's already going back tonight, I'll miss the tour through the exhibition, through the entire exhibition tomorrow, unfortunately, but you will certainly report on it. We'll see each other again at the Fotopia at the latest. We can maybe connect to that again. You can tell us about your experiences, how you perceived the rest. And yes, as always, there will be conversations that we can still have here. One or the other interview, or also an appointment for the future. For all that we can't do this time, at this weekend. That's always great at an event like this, that a lot still comes out of it. There wasn't a big gap to do interviews and I also heard twice that I'd rather not do it today, maybe tomorrow. I said, tomorrow it will be worse with the fatigue. But the input was so big that the photographers or other journalists had the tendency to say, let's make another appointment, I'd like to do an interview, but not now, because we are really knocked out by the information. Good. Yes, wonderful. Then I hope that the audio quality was okay, that the planning thief didn't pass by too often. And yes. See you soon. See you soon. So bye. Bye. Bye. Yes, as mentioned at the beginning, I unfortunately could not stay in Zurich for the full four days, but had to leave after two days. But Pia Paulin was there over the full distance and was so nice and sent me a voice message in which she described her impressions. Pia and I also recorded a joint interview with George Steinmetz in Zurich. You will hear that in the course of the coming week. It is, in my opinion, a wonderful conversation with one of the outstanding photographers of our time. Over 1 million followers on Instagram and in his photographic work George Steinmetz is busy with long-term projects, currently with Feed the Planet, a project in which he deals with the global production chains of our food. So before it is the same at the end still a few voices of exhibiting photographers and photographers which in Zurich at the Artist Walk have presented their works, including George Steinmetz. Now the voice message from Pia Parolin. Hello Kai, thank you for the request. Here are a few of my impressions of the Open Your Eyes Festival in Zurich, to which Lois Lammerhuber invited us and where we also met, where we were able to sit together in person. Yes, what comes to mind? First of all, I think of the Stop, Think, Feel, Act. High-caliber photographers and high-caliber scientists from the ETH Zurich, meet and form a so-called think tank through synergy, through conversations, through common creative ideas, in order to better respond to the 17 UN Sustainable Development Goals, to find new solutions, to show problems, and to help develop strategies together. So, it's pretty cool, because of course nothing is more relevant than the SDGs, Sustainable Development Goals, under which the flag was also the last expo in Dubai. So that's something that has actually existed for many years. I think these 17 goals were formulated in 2015. Or 2005, I don't know, but at least not just yesterday. And there is a big report in Nature, a very important scientific newspaper, which says that these UN goals have not yet been achieved or are only being achieved in the near future. Therefore, every action to get closer to these goals is a very good and important one. And I think Lois and her team can contribute very well with this idea of bringing together these scientists and photographers. What comes to my mind when I think of the festival is that I got to know some really nice people. And as is so common with these events, you really get to know each other, simply because it's over several days and everyone is always together. For example, I made the wonderful acquaintance of Chris de Bode, a fantastic photographer who was funded by NGOs, Save the Children projects with wonderful pictures of the dreams of the children who are exhibited in the city in Zurich. I talked to him for a long time about ethics, about what it means to photograph African people as an old white man. Today, that was common, today it is all very questionable. So with such questions Then I was of course enthusiastic about the Photo Society, TPS, under the leadership of Gerd Ludwig, whom I met for the first time, one of the great National Geographic photographers. He is German but lives in California. Yes, there was a lot of discussion, a lot of just sitting together and talking about photos, about the role of science, about solutions, about hopes and, in addition, just great conversations with people who just have an incredibly interesting life and who can tell so many stories. And there were many National Geographic photographers, also George Steinmetz, Randy Olson. They all presented their series, which are hung up in the city, which are great to see. And with the physical presence of the photographers, who then also explain their things, just great. George Steinmetz with his series about nutrition, how we eat and how strange it all is. And Randy Olsson made a series about plastic waste. Very impressive pictures. What else do I remember? Exactly, water. So at the bottom of the water, right in the center of Zurich, there was a fantastic series about the sea. With really great pictures. Everything somehow very impressive. I was really torn from the seat. Then I remember James Balog. I identify with environmental photographers because it's a great way to draw people's attention to how problematic our way of dealing with the environment is. He made a time series about the glaciers in his photography from 1980 to 2023. So that's very impressive. Then I can think of Peter Menzel, who was there with his wife, also these fantastic photos about the wickedness of people, so that addressed that. So. All these photographers have addressed a special SDG, so these 17 UN goals are all individually formulated, assigned some topics, i.e. human rights, the oceans, agriculture and so on. And James, Peter Balogh was, I think, assigned to the fair distribution of money or property. And he just moved people to clear all their things that they own houses and then photographed the people with their belongings in front of their houses and then you can imagine that in many countries, especially in tropical countries or, also in desert areas, people don't have much and just carried a few things out. Yes, what else comes to mind? Peter Matthias Gede was there, a laudato signo, always a brilliant speaker. One of his sayings was Surrender is not an option. So giving up is not an option. Then it was great to get to know all the people from the ETH. Allegedly the 7th best technical university in the world. Rank and name. The rector was there, the president was there. And you could exchange ideas with everyone. I'm talking way too long again, but overall it was an incredibly informative weekend. And then also humanly just great how warm and warm and generous and sharing this whole group of people was. I just remember even more, so the Cassio Vasconcelos from Sao Paulo, from Brazil, also impressed me a lot with his artistic composition where he took pictures of junkyards from above, with a helicopter or something, he flew over it, took pictures of hidden to show how much garbage we produce and then made collages out of it. Yes, so I can still remember a lot. Everything was very impressive, but the people also impressed me a lot because they were all just there, open, talking to us all the time, exchanging ideas. So really a great weekend and again a very, very big thank you to Lois and his whole team for the invitation, for the organization, for the idea, for sharing and for the warmth. Thank you very much. I would like to thank Lois Lammerhuber, her wife Sylvia and the whole team behind it and all those who made their contribution to bringing this wonderful festival to the start. It's a really great story and hopefully this success story will be written in the coming years. Thank you Pia for your words, it was very exciting to hear your impressions. I hope that I can be there next year with you over the full distance in Zurich. Finally, as promised, the words of some photographers who exhibited their works there. Let's start with George Steinmetz, with whom we also had the luck to sit down again for an hour and talk to him about his photography. You will hear that in the coming weeks. Now a little foretaste before we hear it ourselves. a few introductory words from the festival catalogue. George Steinmetz, nourish the planet. Since the beginning of the domestication of plants about 11,000 years ago, man has converted 40% of the earth's surface into farmland. Since the world population will probably reach 9.7 billion people by 2050 and the standard of living in the rapidly developing countries is increasing, the global food supply must be doubled. Feed the Planet is a 10-year project, in which it is examined how the world can cope with the rapidly growing challenges of the nutrition of humanity and at the same time protect our natural environment and the animal world. In many cases, the food industry makes considerable efforts to prevent us from seeing how our food is produced. Access to this information is of central importance for the personal decisions we make in relation to our diet, and which, in their entirety, have enormous effects on the environment. This project should show how our food is produced, so that we can all make a sound decision. George Steinmetz is a New Jersey-based documentary photographer who has recorded more than 40 large photo essays for National Geographic. Three times he was awarded the World Press Photo Award and was honored for his work with the Environmental Vision Award from Pictures of the Year and an award from the Overseas Press Club. In 2008, he was named National Geographic's Adventurer of the Year and has over 1 million followers on Instagram. George Stimetz is known for his aerial shots, in which he uses both drones and a motorized glider, with which he can capture unique images of places that are unattainable for conventional aircraft. His restless curiosity for the unknown drove him to travel through Africa as a young man, and is the driving force behind his extraordinary work, that includes remote landscapes, climate change and global food supply. So, I'd like to welcome George and also Alexander here in... We all walked past George Steinmetz's great photography. And I'm very glad that we are here in this spot to realise actually what we wanted to have much more, the science photographers' talk. So, in this station here, we have three scientists from ETH Zurich that are in conversation with the photographers and that they talk about the work. So, it is my pleasure really to have George here. We met already in Baden and I heard you speaking about your work, but it's also my pleasure to have Alexander Mattes here. He is the head... Yeah, you can introduce yourself. It's... No, I have to do that. He is the head of the Laboratory for Sustainable Future Processing at ETH Zurich. And I just thought that he has so much to ask or to tell about what we see on the pictures that I wanted him to do this conversation with George. Thank you so much both being here and the floor is yours. Thanks very much, Claudia. Hello, everybody. George, yeah, we just met. So when I see your pictures, I think you really capture nicely the current food production. But there is a lot of discussion about future food production. So I would be very much interested how do you see the development in the next decades to 2050 where we most probably need to feed 10 billion people? Is it also land-based or is it maybe going into fermentation which is discussed a lot or what are your thoughts about that? Well certainly in the developing, the experts say that we're going to have to double global food production by the year 2050 and much of that's going to be due to demand coming from the developing world. It's not just population growth, it's mostly changing demand. People want more protein in their diet and rapidly developing countries like China, Brazil, etc. And the biggest trend I see, I'm not a pundit, I'm not an advocate, I just go in as a observer, and the biggest trend is actually towards automation and mechanization. And like for example, during the pandemic, there was a huge movement towards automated picking because there are always a lot of labor issues, people having trouble getting workers coming across borders, in housing facilities, etc. So the biggest trend is really towards automation and even in the developing world you're seeing transition from, how shall I say, self-sufficient farmers to people working more towards a market economy, people migrating towards the cities. And even in a country like Nigeria, people are having birthday parties for their kids in local supermarkets. It's kind of like the European or the American trends are transporting to the developing world. Those are the major trends. Yeah, thanks very much. So, when I observe, again, this impressive picture where the harvesting of soy is captured, we have 14 million square kilometers worldwide arable land. It's completely used. We use extremely efficient production systems already, from my point of view. We use a massive amount of fertilizer, which is, in the end, enabling our great food production. The Green Revolution was just possible by that. But yeah, there is no more arable land, so we can cut the rainforest, which I suggest not to do. We can produce more per square meter, but maybe we can go on non-arable land systems. We can go on rooftops, undergrounds. And that is a discussion, for example, producing bacteria, yeast, fungi, microalgae, as a biomass for also urban environment maybe. Do you think that is an interesting approach or more niche and fancy? I'm a truth teller, I think it's actually more niche and fancy and I think it captures people's imagination. But I've seen a lot of like, in America I've seen a number of big hydroponic systems and then most of them go bankrupt after a few years because they're actually losing money. The more they sell, the more money they lose. And I think it's interesting, but in the most cases I've seen personally, the economics aren't quite there. And I don't know if that's the future, perhaps, but to be honest, from what I've seen, it's not the present. You touch a very good point, the economy, so the price of production, the total price of food, total cost of food, there are much indirect costs linked to food production from my point of view. Environmental degradation needs to be paid now or maybe in the future, I think. Should we maybe rethink our business model and food production and make it more transparent how much we invest into a food to be produced and reflect that maybe also in the market, Of course that would need policy, maybe also ban or fine environmental damaging food, supporting maybe more sustainable foods. Can that maybe improve a bit the current situation regarding economics with new resources? I know these are complicated questions and you know the world is a very diverse place and all these different ecosystems, so it's hard to make, I'm reluctant to make generalized statements. I mean, generally, farmers, it's not in their interest to degrade their land. And if you go and, let's say, you cut down a big section of the Amazon within a few years, you have to start adding fertilizer to keep the land productive. And if you don't do that, then your system goes bankrupt. So it's in their interest to be sustainable. They don't want to degrade their land. But I think there are a lot of complicated issues. I mean, in Europe, there's a big movement now towards organic food. And I've gone and talked to a lot of European farmers, and they say that when they go organic, their actual productivity goes down. And so I don't know how you're going to feed, do that. If you're going organic, then you have to start importing food to Europe. And I don't know if that's really the direction that people want to go. It's a, these are complicated issues. Yeah, you mentioned also when we had a little pre-talk before the discussion, scale, economy of scale, and I guess affordable food, affordable nutrition is only possible by economy of scale. And when we maybe reduce our production, that is leading for example then to more imports, as you said, maybe less self-supply. Switzerland has a self-supply rate, you know, depending on the category, but around 60% in certain categories, and it's even worse. There are regions like Singapore where if we have a food self-supply of less than 10%, and so the majority of people are living in urban areas, it will increase. Now it's 57%, it will increase to 68% in 2050, even more maybe as projected. How can we produce food then in an urban environment with enough self-supply? Maybe based on your observations, you know? I don't, to be honest, I just don't see urban farming as a realistic solution. I think generally what you see is when a country is rapidly urbanizing, like China, they become the biggest food importer in the world. And so you can't really grow food, you put it on a roof and you have leak problems, you can't get the labor because labor is more expensive in the big cities. So I know people get all excited about urban agriculture, but as a practical matter, I don't see a lot of traction with that. It's a wonderful idea, and it looks great in illustrations and stuff, but I don't know. It doesn't seem... I don't think it's extremely pragmatic, to be honest. And I'm a truth teller. I don't want to be a Debbie Downer, but I just call it like I see it. No, I think this is absolutely needed. Maybe last question, or... Last question. What is your favorite food? And when I see the pictures, I think there is a lot of critical reflection to food production. Yeah, what is your favorite food? and how you think it should be produced? It's really dangerous for me when I come to a country like this and I go to the breakfast buffet and there's all this wonderful cheeses and pork and it's very tempting. And I don't want to tell people what to do. My goal with my project is just to show where our food comes from so everybody can make their own individual choice. I'm not trying to be a role model for anybody. I'm just trying to show you what some of the consequences are of your decisions. I don't want to dodge that question, but I don't, I personally don't think it's the role of journals to tell me what to do. I just think it's their job to give people information so they can make up their own mind. No, then we work on the same side. We also suggest solutions and hope people take the right choice. Thank you very much, George. Let's continue with Chris de Bode. I had the chance to sit at a table with Chris for dinner. We talked in detail and at a later time I would like to record a single interview with him. In his exhibition, in the pictures of his exhibition, Chris has dealt with the topic of I have a dream. This is what it says in the festival catalogue. I have a dream. A photo can show the face of a child, but what can we see of his thoughts, his fantasies, if there is no one there who also makes the silent longing of the children into pictures? The child rights organization Save the Children has asked the photographer Christe Bode to capture the wishes of the children. In Uganda, for example, in Jordan or Haiti, in Mexico or Liberia. Dreams like Sabina has, daughter of a rickshaw driver in New Delhi. Sabina says, Where I live, everything around me is dirty. It stinks. I would love to have beautiful clothes. I would shine like a movie star. Dreams like this symbolize the hope and the resilience of children. And to take the hope of the children as seriously as Christobode has succeeded. Full of respect and compassion. I have been working on this project for eight years. Every time I did an assignment for Save the Children, I collected the dreams of the children. For the photographer born in the Netherlands, Christe Bode, many wishes in his professional life have come true. As a professional mountain guide, he began to photograph. His hobby became a passion. His photo reports from crisis areas, often in collaboration with non-governmental organizations such as Save the Children, Greenpeace and various UN organizations, led to publications in international magazines, which were covered with many awards. Christe Bode has published several books, and now he is also working on his projects in documentary films. Though you do also other things. What is your view on being a photographer these days? Ooh, that's a difficult and also rather emotional question, because the work you see here, I did over a span of eight years traveling to all these countries, mainly working on assignments. But reality nowadays is different. Not only because of COVID that we all had to stop traveling, but also that the clients I had don't want to work with me anymore. And that's because I've got a really bad character and so they're done with me but also because I'm white male and NGOs which were mainly my client base they like to work with local photographers nowadays which I applaud and I'm also dedicated a lot of time in educating African photographers So I'm really, really happy that they're now giving the opportunity to take over my role. But on the other hand, it feels sad because I miss the traveling and I miss being, yeah, like of added value in which I produce basically and my vision or my thoughts. And, so basically you're looking at a show which I produce, which I'm not able to do anymore. This is, I can't. The work is children and visualizing their thoughts. You've been working on this for eight years. That's what the catalog says. You always have to trust the catalog. Eight years and the body of work. Where did this idea start? What was the first photo that you made in this project? Well, it started in Ethiopia. And funny enough, I was asked to photograph for the eight Millennium Goals, which the UN created like back in 2004 or so, and they all had to be completed in 2010. Well, we all know we didn't succeed, and now we have 17 goals. I went to a school in Ethiopia, and I asked kids there what they want to become when they grow up. And that was actually the reason why I was asked by another organization to produce this body of work. The oldest one is, are you still in contact with the kids? Do you know if their dreams come true? Yes, some of them, yeah. Because of social media, I'm in contact with a few. And I also revisited kids which I photographed. And one story, I was in India, in Delhi, and I photographed a girl in front of a wall, and we decided to paint a plane on the wall because she wanted to become an air hostess. And then four years later, I visited her again and we went to the wall and the owner of the wall removed the plane because he probably felt like who painted a plane on my wall. And then the girl, four years later, didn't want to become an air hostess anymore. She just finished school and she wanted to become a lawyer. And that seems to be her reality now. So I saw growth and because you always, you have to realize you always photograph people in a certain moment of time. And and this is a very positive story. I photograph kids in their strength and with their hopes and beliefs. And I try not to stigmatize. I don't want to stereotype. And I want this the result of a labor of love, basically. Is it a cooperation with the kids? you photograph them, but you do you. You work with them or do you instruct them or do you say let's visualize this do they do this out of themselves or is it something you you come up with together yeah it's really done together and um uh so the the talks before i did with a translator and but every time when i started out photographing them it was mainly the place that they love and they like to be here and we were i was together with them so it was really a mutual mutual thing and of course you know i I was sometimes directing and stuff. And, but no, it's just, it's a cooperation. Yeah. To see it here outside, it's always, you need to share it with an audience. It's not the first time that it's shown, but to see it out here, what does that mean to you? Well, I just arrived over there at the other show and I turned around and I said, literally, oh wow, that's my show. I mean, it's a wonderful spot. Well, I'm extremely happy that there's so many people sharing this with me and it means a lot. So yeah, I thought when I heard that, I said, this is the theme of the new exhibition. Oh wow, this is my show. Final question, when you grow up, what is your dream? Well, in fact, when I was young, I always walked past the Photoshop, and I was, I think, seven years old and I saw all these cameras with these buttons and stuff and I totally forgot about it. When I was 25 and totally confused about what I wanted to do. And I remembered like, hey, this photo thing. Then I started out and well, that's a romantic story to it. But yeah. Yeah. Something like that. Yeah. Photographer till you, you never finish. Christe Bode, thank you so much for sharing your insights, your thoughts about it. And congratulations having these dreams here on display in Zurich. I forgot. Listen, I want to do some self-promotion here because you're all here. I published a book and it's a lovely book. Here it is. It's like contains 70 dreams or so, 17 different dreams. Look at, look me up on my website if you're interested. I've got a bunch of books still in my attic. So feel free and thanks again. Thank you for this. There is a lot of time for conversations and we are happy about everyone we can talk to. Yes, but also in Zurich, Esther Hase is represented with an exhibition, Rock and Old. This is what it says in the festival catalogue. With Rock and Old, photographed for the annual calendar of the Berlin nursing service Jahnke, Esther Hase staged a dream world that could not be more real. As a social project, the older people act together with film and stage stars in role-playing games. Vivienne Westwood made a costume contribution with students of her Berlin fashion class. The experience of a completely unknown side of her life has helped many old people to unusual moments of happiness. Esther Hase says, the work with the old people is an exciting project. A model can create everything on call. The feeling that comes from the photos of non-professionals is really unadjusted. The old people are very critical and I have to admit that, but when the time comes, they go completely out of themselves. Esther Hase has been working for international publishers and magazines since 1993. She switches between the genres of fashion, portrait, reportage and free art projects. She has worked for the Vogue and the Vanity Fair, as well as advertising campaigns for Guest and Escada. With her works she is represented in international museums and collections. So, hello. This is another very special and wonderful work from Esther Haase. This belongs to the goal three. I just read one line. Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages. Esther, normally, you are now a fashion photographer. You have been a dancer, but now you are a fashion photographer. The age of your clients or your models is between 30. This exhibition, you can see, I think, is about 85 to 95. Yeah, it's a little bit different, but it's a long-term project, over 20 years around. A really, really very heartwarming project. We met in 2006. I just was looking for an exhibition for Berlin, in the Willy Brandt Haus, for appreciating the age. And then we met on the street, and you told me about this project. Now you can tell the people what's for a project. Hello, yes, so nice to see you all here. And I'm very happy with my printing, I have to say. Looks gorgeous, it looks like in the gallery. And so my project, I started I think in 1993 when I was pregnant with my daughter. And so I think this was my first client in a way, like I worked for a home care. So the people you see here are all from Berlin and they are all patients or clients of a home care. So they are all people who have a lot of... Problems. Sometimes they are just lonely. Sometimes they're like, old and they cannot walk anymore. Sometimes they have diabetes or like they're like, in any kind of what happens when you get older. So and what can happen when you get old. I don't hope so. Yeah, I hope it's not happening. But I mean, as you can see, they do very well. So so when When I started this project, I was like, wow, that's interesting. So to work with people who are actually beyond 80. And so we had this idea, it's an over cross between a social project and an art project. So we had this idea of a calendar, which we produced mainly every year sometimes. We had, and it was a Spendenprojekt, I don't know how that is called in English. So we produced it kind of every year. Sometimes there were two years, no calendar, but in general it was like every year. And the project started in 1993 and ended in 2020. So I got old by that age, by that time. And actually my client, like my first client is like now in Rente. And so that's why we stopped. And so these patients like I met. The client sent me pictures and said that was my casting. So I had casting pictures where they were sitting at home with their rollator, like with everything around them and comfy clothes and it didn't look very. Inspiring, I have to say. But that was like the big challenge and you had to look at the faces and you had to look what is there, and what can you make from that. And that was my big challenge and that was my joy. Because I have my background as being a dancer, and I come from theater, and I know what you can do with people when you go on stage. And beauty for me is not about age, or how you look, big, small, whatever, tiny, tall, it's about being like yourself or like being empowered and feel yourself and express yourself. And that's what I was giving these people. And so actually this project is more or less like a real therapy to them. Because it starts in the beginning of the year, we come up with an idea. That calendar was for example about sexuality and age. And so we had like challenging subjects, like what people were probably not thinking about anymore or like not so much about, or maybe a lot, but not trusting themselves anymore. So we like came up with these challenging ideas and then we made proposals, like how we want to, so my husband, so we, so I did not do it alone, he's an art director. So we came up with all this idea. And then we proposed this to the people and then they had discussion rounds. So they came to the place and they were all discussing about the subject and then if they dare, if they dare the picture, like for example I had a picture where the woman had to climb up for jumping in the swimming pool and she was afraid of height, But she picked especially that image, because she wanted to do it. And so in the beginning, it was quite difficult to find the people for the project, because it was so crazy. And then in the end, everybody wanted to do it. So every year, it was like the casting got... I got more and more people, and it was hard to decide. So I have my favorite woman was Miss Frank, no, Miss Brown. And she's also on the cover of my book. It's called Rock and Old. So from the calendar I made in the end like a book which is called Rock and Old and it came out with Kera Verlag, which I unfortunately didn't bring. I'm such a bad self-promoter. So, yeah, so that's, so yeah, I mean, what can I say? They're all. Not used to be in front of the camera, the action starts when... I mean, the attention for them was so incredible. When you're on the shoot, and the whole makeup team comes and puts eyelashes on you, you know, like you haven't made up... Like, you didn't go out. There's no reason, like, there's no parties, like, maybe, like, not so many at least. And, yeah, I mean, they are 95 sometimes. I had women, like they couldn't walk anymore. We were like shooting them lying. And like this boxer, like on the back side, like for example, like this was a guy, he definitely couldn't move anymore. And the guy who was like he's fighting against is a carer. So I involved everybody in the pictures. And there's also a lot of Schirmherren, like a lot of German actresses who joined over the years a project like Iris Berben, Hannelore Hoga and Gudrun Landgräber, Nena, and so on, and Vivian Westwood also did with her class like for one calendar, like she did like the dresses, like the couture. So, I mean, as you, so as this project started so early in 1993, like it got a lot of attention by press, Yes, Arte did a movie about it, we had a lot of journalists coming and the attention for. The people, that was like a party, they were so happy. In the end, we had this incredible exhibition in Willy Brandt Haus and they all came and, they could see themselves on the walls. I want to tell you, I invited all these people to a coffee in the Willy Brandt house, where all the politicians could walk in through and they were greeting and crying, oh you are this man and you are this man. And they... On the side, have been hanging the pictures of them. And they went to them, and it was such a difference, but they have been so proud and so happy. And I think this is also a long-term result for them of their own, to encourage them to be more active and to have another view on their life. I think this is an absolute great effort, and this for 20 years, I think, did more than a therapy. It's a wonderful life. More than a therapy for me, too. No, but yeah, so I think if you have any questions, like to the pictures, whatever, I'm happy to answer. Just one question, dear Esther, when can I book you for a shooting with a group of older people maybe? Yeah, yeah, for sure you can do that. I come. Yeah, yeah, no, like for me it's just the biggest joy to work with people who really appreciate what you're doing and where something comes back, like there's so much love what comes back to me when I do these pictures that it's kind of like, I mean it was a social project so I didn't get very much paid, like it was actually just to cover the cost and I did it over nearly my whole career as a photographer, like I mean nearly 25 years, so I love this project. It's my... Whatever. Thank you very much. Thank you, Esther. I can say it's one of the most beautiful exhibitions. I have a lot of them, but this is one of the most beautiful exhibitions. Last but not least I would like to invite you to the series Dia Centernos, Ewige Tage von Ana Maria Arevalo-Gosen eingehen, die mich persönlich sehr gepackt, hat. Ana Maria Arevalo-Gosens Arbeit bietet eine erschütternde, aber zutiefst menschliche Erkundung des Lebens inhaftierter Frauen in Venezuela und in El Salvador. Die in Caracas, Venezuela geborene und jetzt in Madrid lebende Arevalo-Gosen hat seit 2017 die harte Realität des Lebens in 15 Gefängnissen und Haftanstalten fotografiert. The series highlights the situation of women in interrogation prisons where they are often locked up for months or years and wait for court decisions, which according to the law should take place within a maximum of 45 days. The pictures show the claustrophobic, overcrowded cells and a world that is shaped by violence, need and an extreme lack of space, hygiene, nutrition and medical care. The series shows the lack of respect and justice for these women. Despite the gloomy circumstances, Dias Internus also captures the resistance and solidarity of the women and offers a view of hope in the midst of despair. This brave, ongoing series not only documents the conditions of imprisonment, but also reflects the profound impact on the families of the insassins and the Latin American society in general. Arevalo Ghosn studied photography at the ETPA Toulouse and worked as a freelance photographer in Hamburg. Since 2017, she has been documenting the crises in her home country and is focusing on the experience of women. Her work is an impressive testimony to the urgent need for a system change, the caution of human rights and the reduction of inequalities within the criminal justice system. For her work, Areva Logosen was awarded the Leica Oscar Barnack Award in 2021. It is very impressive what you display, also in the words of Eva Marie. But your partner from the ETH here in Zurich is Elliot Ash. He is a professor in law. In law. I put it like that. And he has been working a lot on legal issues. So I hand over the microphone to him to have a short conversation with you. I have a couple of thoughts about your inspiring sequence of photographs. Do you want to give a quick introduction about them before I say something? Hi, everyone. I hope you're not too hot today. I am Venezuelan, so I'm like thrilling to be here in this summer. Hello. I am Ana Maria Revalogosen. I am a Venezuelan visual storyteller. I have been working in this project since 2017. It's about the conditions of women in detention centers and imprisonment in Latin America. I started, of course, in my country, in Venezuela. I migrated from Venezuela in 2009 after having three episodes of violent attacks, or violent acts in my country. I decided to leave and study abroad. I went to France. But then, and I went away being like very, very pissed off. So I was like divorced from my country, I didn't want to know anything about it. And then in 2017, I woke up one day and I wanted to feel the warmth of my country, I wanted to see my dad again, I wanted to drink a beer at the beach with my auntie, I wanted to see my friends, and I came back. And when I came back, of course, nothing was like I left it. The infrastructure was severely deteriorated. My friends and family were getting thinner because there was not enough food to eat. The hopes for a better future were completely frustrated. And so I decided to make a project, a visual project that tackled the question why. Or in better words, how the hell did we end up being this country and what happened in between. And so I was talking to a journalist friend about this and she told me that she worked for an NGO that defended the rights of the people that were taken to pretrial detention. And she told me that their human rights were constantly being violated, that they didn't receive any food, water, or medical attention, and that were completely abandoned by the system. And I said, I don't believe you. And I asked her if she could bring me to a detention center and she did and I'm going to leave it there and I'm going to start my conversation with Cyril because he's there looking at me like he wants to ask something. So you can go ahead and ask me a question. Also, yeah, to finish. That's the moment in this visit when I decided I wanted to make a body of work about female imprisonment. Amazing. Thank you for letting me be a comment on this amazing portfolio of pictures that I think really tell an important story. As mentioned, I'm a professor at ETH. My work is on law and social science, including criminal justice issues and inequality. And I think that this photo exhibit is an amazing way to amplify and motivate a scientific, as well as journalistic and artistic exploration of these issues in Venezuela and worldwide. Ana Maria's images are powerful because they help us see how modern and complex societies, strained by corrupt politics and deteriorating social cohesion, still must set up institutions to protect everyone from the harm of crime. Putting human beings in cages is an extreme measure, and these photos show, way better than stories and statistics, the deep personal and social costs of detention. I think it also forces us to ask, in the context of the sustainable development goals, what are courts and prisons for? What is the criminal justice system for? They can, as an ideal, serve to protect society. And when people have committed crimes against their fellow human beings, and courts prove their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, then a proportional prison term is fair. It can balance the moral books, and it can help rehabilitate and reform the offender so that their position in society can be fully restored safely. And going forward, a fair justice system, from more of an economics perspective and incentives perspective, can provide a deterrent to crime so they don't happen in the first place. That is, I would say, kind of a social science or sort of institutional foundation for a setting for these photos. And Anna's photos from Venezuela show the opposite of that ideal. Many are held indefinitely without trial. The living conditions are unsafe and they neglect basic human needs. And rather than reform and strengthen, the jails tend to stigmatize and debilitate. And the prolonged and untested detentions break up families and diminish opportunities for the next generation. I would say that these photos amplify the knowledge produced by journalists and social scientists on how criminal justice systems worldwide often fall short of our ideals. And rather than protecting marginalized groups, criminal justice systems often further marginalize them. Yet, for these women in Venezuela, and this is what I love about this, this very thought-provoking photo sequence, the human spirit still shines through with these women. It's amazing. Even in this dehumanizing circumstance, these women preserve their dignity, their personality, their humanity, and they find beauty and love and fun. That is inspiring. On that note, I would conclude by asking Ana about how this experience shapes the identity of these women inmates. How do they see themselves in jail and afterward? Do they feel or can they have the hope of reintegrating into society or do they become further marginalized? And what does that mean for the future in Venezuela and worldwide? Thank you. And thank you for your words. They were really... Thank you. Thank you. To answer the question really quickly, how do they see themselves inside the prison? Well, imprisonment of course carries a very big stigma. So when they're inside the prison, of course they have a life and they manage to make their hair and to have tattoos or to paint the walls of their cell, to make it like a home-like cell. And the most important thing for them is the visit day because it's the day when not only the family comes to visit, but also they depend, they rely on their families to survive. So it's the day when the water comes, when the medicine come, when everybody is waiting for this moment when they get a bit of the things that they need. Also, I expanded this project, it's not only in Venezuela, I expanded it to El Salvador in 2021, and then to Guatemala in 2022. And in Guatemala and El Salvador, is that these prisons are really looking like a small city. So you have the house where they sleep, which are like the sectors, the little sectors where they sleep, but they also have like a station of manicure and pedicure, a station where they can bake, et cetera, et cetera. So it looks really like a small city. Nevertheless, of course, They are deprived of their liberty. And I want to mention that no one that I have met in these three countries are coming from a middle or high class strata. These are all people coming from lower class, and they don't have, in Venezuela, for example, if you are corrupt or work for the government, you will never go to prison as well. So that's basically how it happens inside, but then outside you carry a very big stigma that follows you for life. So once you leave the prison. You can think that, okay, in this prison, what do they do? They do nothing. The time goes by, the time pass by, and they don't get any type of education, they don't get any type of higher purpose, and once they are out, they are out without nothing. They didn't work, they didn't have, sometimes in El Salvador, for example, Patricia was not even able to read. Patricia is the woman who is there. She wasn't able to have books, She was not able to have visits, she was not able to do anything but just wait. And so, when you are outside, you find yourself in a completely different world because time goes by, and you didn't study anything, your family often abandons you, so you are finding yourself by yourself. And many of them then, whether go back to committing crimes, because that's the only thing that they know how to do or how to manage life, Or they rely on NGOs and people who are actually working for post-penitentiary communities that are helping them finding a way to regain the trust of their family, to earn a living with a proper job, etc. But it's very complicated because, of course, there are not many NGOs working in these countries around post-penitentiary. And these countries are in a big crisis, so the penitentiary system is often overlooked and it's not something that we often think about, but it has consequences in all of our society. It has consequences in every, how crimes are investigated, how judges find the guilty person or are corrupt. And it is a body of work that I want you to think about that, you know. It's not only these women, it's everyone in Latin America is impacted by how our criminal justice system and how our penitentiary system works. Thank you. On that last point about these women in these Venezuelan prisons being indicative or a symbol or a metaphor or have a broader message. What can you say about that in terms of, if you had done this portfolio in a men's prison, how would the message have been different and what do you see as the driving force there? I worked with women because I wanted to get inside the detention center, I wanted the guards to leave me with them, and I wanted to have intimate conversations with them, and I wanted to photograph them once that they allow me to photograph them. I didn't want to go to a prison and just take three pictures and leave, and I wanted to keep on coming back. So, for example, in La Yaguara, which is a detention center that I visited quite often, I went there 20, 30 times to really interview and gain the trust of the inmates. And that's only doable if I am working with other women. I don't think I was going to be able to do that with the male detainees. Because I am a woman, and we can also have different conversations. We can also have... I can also relate a lot. And women are in Venezuela the main breadwinners of the family. They are mothers, they are the ones taking care of the whole ecosystem that are around them. And that's a female, a woman in prison means that the whole constellation, the whole family is falling apart. The kids or the children of this family are often, whether left outside with an unknown person or left by the mercy of the state. In El Salvador and in Guatemala and in Venezuela, Of course, they are allowed to stay in prison until they are four to six, depending on the country, but in an attention center, it's not allowed. So everyone that is detained is forced to leave their children outside. And also their elderly are forced to be left alone. So having women in prison affects everything, everything. One last question on that note, that these women in the prison, we think of them as individuals, and that's important. But also, they're part of a broader society, part of families, and have friends, and oftentimes children that are equally punished by this unfair system. Could you comment more on what are the impacts on the next generation of these unfair, long pretrial detentions? Did you see any examples of it actually affecting children, making them more likely to end up in a criminal justice system, for example? Yeah, for example, in El Salvador, I interviewed not only women in prison, but female gang members outside prison. And I, for example, I met one girl called, well, called Blue, I had a nickname for her. And Blue is the little girl of two gang members who were in prison too, and she was also a gang member, but that's also because that's the only thing that she knows. And she was there, she was part of the gang, she was doing things for them, or working with them, but she didn't know anything else. So it's a thing that has to do a lot with education, it's a problem that has to do a lot with education from home before imprisonment, and once they are in prison, Of course, also in El Salvador, I went to the maternity sector, and a lot of the kids are born there, so they don't know also anything else besides the prison life. So what does it mean for this little kid when he's going to go out? What's going to happen to him? So of course, it's affecting generationally everybody. So those are the questions that I had. Were there any other final thoughts or angles that you wanted to illuminate at the moment before we conclude? No. Well, thank you very much. Thank you. I should talk to you. I'll turn it back over to Claudia. Www.openyoureyesfestival.photo Thank you for listening and see you next time. Your.