And the good thing with black and white, I really don't like the reason I take a lot of pictures in bad weather. Because nobody goes out in bad weather and it's the most rewarding pictures. And when you're in the sunshine, it's too much sun. I never like that. And so in black and white, it's more dramatic even when the weather is bad. Welcome to a new Gate7 Podcast-Folge. Or better than a new, because I'm just a little bit of a creative pause. Gate7 makes Urlaub. Well, so is it not. The same is the case. Because what at the beginning of the year has worked, I'm going to do it again. In a short look, in February 2023 I was with Thomas Jones, with whom I make a month long in Kuba, like in Havanna. Ähnlich wie die Zeit bei Pia Parolin an der Côte d'Azur im Sommer 2022, wo Thomas und ich unter anderem intensiv am Feinschliff des Manuskripts für unser mittlerweile im D-Punkt Verlag erschienenen Buch mit Bildern Geschichten erzählen gearbeitet haben, haben wir auf den Straßen Havannas jede Menge Reportagen fotografiert und Street Photography gemacht. Davon haben wir schon ausführlich berichtet. Wir sind mit vielen Geschichten und Bildern zurückgekommen, in the past weeks and months in webinars, podcasts, videos and what we know all of them have been. You can see and listen to it again. Especially on the YouTube channel of Thomas Jones, you find several videos. Yes, this time is Thomas left home and I have to go to Cuba alone. I will go there a month in Havana. Wieder die Angel auswerfen und schauen, was ich rund um den Malecon alles für Motive und Geschichten finde. Ein kreatives Retreat in Kubas Hauptstadt. Ich bin schon sehr gespannt auf die Begegnung und die Bilder. Und ja, Kuba ist für vieles bekannt, aber nicht für sein rasend schnelles Internet. Deshalb habe ich sicherheitshalber schon mal ein paar Folgen aus dem Archiv geholt, damit du in der Zeit, in der ich unterwegs bin, nicht ganz auf Inhalte hier im Gate7 Podcast verzichten musst. Und wie gesagt, ich werde natürlich nicht faul in der Sonne liegen und Cuba Libre trinken, sondern auch fleißig fotografieren. Das verspreche ich dir. Und dann gibt es hinterher wieder bestimmt viele neue spannende Geschichten. Und wer weiß, vielleicht gibt es ja irgendwann auch mal eine Fotoreise nach Kuba. Auf jeden Fall kannst du mich anschreiben, wenn du vorhast, nach Kuba zu reisen. Ich gebe dir gerne meine Kontakte zu lokalen Guides weiter, die dir sicherlich dabei helfen können, noch mehr hinter die Kulissen in Kubas Hauptstadt zu schauen. Aber bevor wir den großen Sprung wagen und vielleicht irgendwann doch mal mit einer Fotoreise nach Kuba aufbrechen, geht es 2024 erstmal wieder ins europäische Ausland. Neben unserem Street Photography Workshop in Hamburg direkt vor der Photopia, genauer gesagt am 9. Oktober 2024, geht es 2024 auch wieder nach Helsinki und Lissabon. Aus Lissabon bin ich praktisch gerade erst zurückgekehrt. Anfang November hat da zum ersten Mal ein Workshop von uns stattgefunden. Der Workshop war schnell ausgebucht und wir hatten perfekte Bedingungen und jede Menge Spaß. War eine tolle Gruppe und ich freue mich jetzt schon, das Ganze im kommenden Jahr zu wiederholen. Aber auch Helsinki solltest du nicht unterschätzen. There is a lot of time to look at it. I've lived a long time in Finland and I'm looking forward to it, especially in Helsinki. For me it's a wonderful city, directly at the beach. Beziehungsweise am Wasser und mit einer ganz besonderen Atmosphäre, vor allem im Sommer, wenn der Workshop stattfindet Ende Juli. Ja, und ich freue mich einfach, die Stadt zu entdecken, gemeinsam mit dir. Helsinki ist auf jeden Fall eine Stadt, die viel Charme und viel Flair besitzt und auf jeden Fall es wert ist, entdeckt zu werden. Ja, und wenn das für dich interessant klingt, dann schau gerne auch in den Shownotes. Da findest du nochmal die klickbaren Links mit weiteren Informationen zu unseren Workshops und das Ganze kannst du auch direkt machen, wenn du möchtest, auf der Webseite unter www.abenteuer-reportage-fotografie.de. Abenteuer Reportage Fotografie ist ja das Projekt, das die Inhalte von Gate7 sozusagen in die Praxis umsetzt. Ein Projekt, das ich gemeinsam mit Thomas Jones mache und in dem all das, was ich mit meinen Gästen hier im Podcast bespreche, in die Praxis umgesetzt wird. Und zwar in verschiedenen Formen, in verschiedenen Formaten, wie Webinare, Podcast, Workshops, alles sehr interaktiv. And there has been a very active community built, where we are now over 100 participants. We are all around the street photography, reportage and storytelling. If you want to see the link in the show notes, in your podcast app or on the website www.abenteuer-reportage-fotography.de. Yeah, and as I said, this is for me the right time coming, after a turbulent year with many workshops, with many workshops, with many actions around Gate 7 and the Abenteuer Reportage Photography to get a pause, to take a moment again, And maybe it is for you a good opportunity, to get some more intense with the current contents of Gate 7 in Ruhe together to set up und dich dann auf die neuen Interviews zu freuen, die in den kommenden Wochen und Monaten sicherlich kommen werden. Zum einen natürlich das, was ich auf Kuba erlebe. Zudem muss ich auch noch aufarbeiten, was ich fotografisch in Kolumbien vor mittlerweile über einem Jahr gemacht habe, sowie zuletzt auf den Reisen in Helsinki und Lissabon. Da ist noch einiges im Archiv. Dann kommt Kuba noch hinzu und Mitte Januar geht es dann auch wieder in meine zweite Heimat nach Argentinien, also eine ganze Menge, die da auf dem Zettel steht. Wenn du zufällig Anfang 2024 auch in Buenos Aires bist und Lust auf eine individuelle Fototour hast, dann melde dich gerne bei mir. Ab Januar gibt es dann natürlich auch hier frische Folgen, damit aber in der Zwischenzeit hier auf dem Kanal keine Funkstille herrscht. Bin ich mal tief ins Archiv gestiegen und habe ein paar Folgen herausgesucht, die aus dem einen oder anderen Grund es wert sind, noch einmal ausgestrahlt zu werden. Ja, und außerdem sind die Hörerzahlen in den vergangenen Monaten nochmal deutlich gestiegen. In Kürze knackt Gate7 dann auch die eine Million Marke, was die Downloads angeht. Darüber freue ich mich natürlich sehr. Vielen Dank natürlich an dieser Stelle auch an dich da draußen, die oder der du regelmäßig Gate7 hörst. Das freut mich. Ja, und danke natürlich auch an alle, die Gate7 erst kürzlich entdeckt und abonniert haben, denn du auch dazu gehörst. Dann bist du eingestiegen, als es schon über 350 Folgen gab und ja, wahrscheinlich bist du noch nicht dazu gekommen, alle Archivfolgen zu hören. Insofern ist diese Folge dann bestimmt auch neu für dich. Ja und diesmal ist es Ragnar Axelsson, ein isländischer Fotograf, den wir am Rande der Medientage des Fotofestivals Lagasili Baden-Foto im vergangenen Jahr getroffen haben. Wir, das sind Ulrike Schumann und Thomas Pöhler vom Fotopodcast und Thomas Jones. Gemeinsam haben wir dieses Interview in Baden geführt. Seit Jahrzehnten fotografiert Ragnar Axelsson in arktischen Regionen. Dort hat der Isländer die Folgen des Klimawandels für Mensch und Natur miterlebt. Seine Bilder von rauer Schönheit zeigen eine Welt, die im Begriff ist, für immer zu verschwinden. Ja, ein Interview, was mich stark inspiriert hat und ich denke, es ist auf jeden Fall wert, es noch einmal hier auszustrahlen. Ich wünsche dir viel Spaß, wenn du das Interview heute zum ersten Mal hörst, Aber auch, wenn du es schon einmal gehört hast, dann ist jetzt mit etwas Abstand bestimmt immer noch etwas Neues, was du entdeckst und wahrnimmst, was du beim ersten Mal so nicht bemerkt hast. Auf jeden Fall lohnt es sich, hier nochmal reinzuhören. Ja, bevor es losgeht, noch eine ganz kurze Bitte an dieser Stelle. Ich würde mich unheimlich freuen, wenn du genau das machen würdest, was ich getan habe, nämlich einmal ganz tief ins Archiv zu gehen und zu schauen, welche Folgen du vielleicht noch nicht gehört hast und deine Lieblingsfolge heraussuchst und sie auf Social Media, Facebook oder Instagram teilst. With your friends, with your friends, who are also interested in photography and storytelling. That would really help me to help this podcast more a little bit more than to make. I have in the last few months and months as I said, a lot of hearing loss can be found, which I'm very excited to do. And yes, if you want to help me, help me, support you for the work, which I do here, to reach more people, who are interested in visual storytelling, then I would like to thank you for a little bit of the Trommel for Gate 7. So, jetzt aber wirklich direkt hinein in die Wiederholung des Interviews mit Ragnar Axelsson. Viel Spaß! Well, hello Ragnar. Thank you very much for taking the time to sit down with us here in Baden to talk about your beautiful work. We had a chance to look at your images yesterday displayed on huge panels here in Baden. What was it like for you to see your images displayed in this way here? That's an honor. That's a great honor. It's always, you know, to see it that big outside, it's like kind of a shock saying, wow, did I do that? You know, so it's great. I also have had in galleries, so it's different a little bit. You know when you're inside with the frames and all that but this is this is this is great yeah you've always been a photographer who's been or who's put much emphasis and importance on seeing the pictures printed as well uh i doing the research for this interview i came across one anecdote that you told that once you went to new york to see the pictures of uh wg smith on the wall in a gallery to learn about his printing technique and then you went back to the darkroom trying to, put into practice what you learned from him can you tell a little bit what it was about this trip and also what this photographer means to you, he's one of the greatest photographers ever I think there are many great ones and he was great I kind of was watching his work, and I wanted to see how he was printing because I grew up kind of in a darkroom. I was always in the darkroom. My father made a darkroom for me so I was always there and it was a magical moment seeing a picture come to life in the developer. And so I wanted to see his work and I called some gallery, I don't remember where it was, it was in New York, and told my wife, I want to go to New York just to see how he prints as he was against it. But I went anyway. Told her she thought I was up in the highlands. Went for a day and back the next day just to see how he was printing. I was put on a mask and a white glove to see the print, which was beautiful. And I got straight back home and started using, as he used ferocyanide, which is a very poison thing actually. So I was practicing on that. And it was, you know, for a long time I was practicing printing like he did because I liked how he did it. And there's a film about him now, Minamata, played by Johnny Depp. And so you see a little bit into his life. And he was kind of crazy, but I think sometimes you have to be a little bit crazy to do what he did. That's a good jumping off point, that you need to be a little bit crazy as a photographer to do this kind of images. You also photographed in extreme conditions very cold conditions in the Arctic, before we come to that I'd like to stay with W. Eugene Smith for a while apart from his printing technique was there anything else that you took away from him about his approach to photography his style of photography of storytelling? Yeah, he got so much into everything he was doing and I think that is very important, to work like that so uh because um especially when you photograph what i was my passion photographing in the arctic was uh it's easy to go and sail around an iceberg in a rubber boat and take pictures of an iceberg and go back home but i think you have to go into the story and into like people's life and stay with them and so i did that i stayed with them on on the on the sea eyes in a tent and got to know them, gained their trust to be able to photograph their life and ask them questions about what the future will hold for them. So then you really got into what was happening. We are reading in books about what's happening, but they are walking on the pages in the book. So it's a huge knowledge they have. So that was the thing I wanted to get. And that's what he did. he did really go into all the stories he did, and it shows in his photographs. Was it very difficult to get in contact with the people? Not really. Sometimes, though, it took some time, and it spreads around when I get to know one and another one. And so when I go to another place, they sometimes contact, and I, oh, he's okay. So it takes just the time to be a part of their group. And it has to be, it's a little bit like sometimes to break the ice between us just to joke a little. And so they feel that they can trust you. I think that's important. I mean, show them respect and you can get everywhere. And you lived with them and so they knew you as well. and yeah yeah we lived in a you know in a on the sea ice in a tent and um, And they were hunting shields and narwhal and polar bears. And in the afternoon, we were getting cold. We were warming up the tent and we played cards. And I lost all the time. They cheated. So I lost my gear, but I had to make a deal with them, keep my gear and my clothes on until back. So that kind of made us all laugh and they were happy with it. They needed it more than I did when I was leaving. So it was kind of, it built up a great friendship. And I still have great friendship with them. How long did you live with them? It was up to five weeks sometimes in tents and small cabins. But usually to go like that now is like being not more than maybe two weeks. Because when you stay on the ice, you look to the left, there's only ice. And you look to the right, there's only ice and icebergs, of course. So you're taking the same photographs sometimes over and over again. But you never know what happens. and so that is you keep your concentration if you're not too long otherwise you don't know if there's anybody alive in the world sometimes because you're out of reach from everything. You once said that when you started out as a photographer all your colleagues, everybody went to Africa and you turned the other direction, you went to the Nordic, you're from Iceland and so So what other reason was there to focus on that region, whereas everybody else seemed to be looking another way? Yeah. I read the stories from great Arctic explorers. It was a Danish guy, Knut Rasmussen and Peter Freugen. They wrote different books. From the same journey, they wrote two books. One was boring and one was hilarious because he added the funny parts happening in his book. Peter Freugen, he was kind of like a monk cousin. But the stories, they were true in a way, though, what he wrote. And I was so excited going, seeing this kind of life. And it was a dream since I was just a young boy. And so I went. And it's still ongoing, actually. I've been going like 50 times or something. You grew up on a farm, a very remote place. How did that impact you growing up? What was your childhood like, your relation to nature? to the people? I was eight years old the first time I went. I was there for about eight years, six, eight years, eight summers. And there were no Brits to pass the glacial rivers. I had to be flown in by an aircraft. And I felt like the whole world was mine. I was 10 years old on a horse. I had a white horse and I had to measure the rivers, glacial rivers, because all the people on the farm, There were five brothers, two sisters, they were scientists, and they were measuring the glaciers and the rivers and always writing it down, taking the weather every day. So I had to pass a glacial river on a horse, 10 years old, to measure the next one. And I was alone, and I felt like it was great. Today you would be taken away from your parents if you do that. But it made me kind of stronger, you know, and being... A little bit more brave to do things like going to the Arctic. I'm not a brave man, but I just felt like I could do more. So that was, and I saw the glaciers were retreating. And I thought the people that was, I photographed the people in their environment and the farmers. And I thought, this is going to change. So it started early on at the age of 10. And the best pictures, it's in a book that I did in an exhibition in Munich, which I took when I was 10. It's probably the best pictures I've ever taken, so there was no improvement. That started it all, actually. To photograph people in their environment and documenting life. It's my passion, in a way. You've stayed with that theme now throughout your career. How important is that in your eyes for a photographer to find something that he really has, a theme that he knows about that he feels and that comes from within it feels how do I say it. It's just something that happens inside of you it's like writing a song you write certain kind of songs don't try to write other types of songs you know stick with working from your heart that's what I did and it was like, yeah it kind of I couldn't take it out I had to do this I did a lot of things I worked on newspaper I did sports and everything and it was fun news it was great but my mind was always on this, documentary work and I think today photography has always been important it's even more important than today to, show people how life on earth is and the changes that are happening. And if you take, for instance, photography, how it is, it's kind of fighting for its life in a way because it's changed so drastically in 10, 15 years. And today the most popular ones are on Instagram. It's little girls and guys wiggling their ass in front of a waterfall. It has nothing to do with life on earth. It's just a funny picture. But they're very highly rated which is, someday they will find out it's not. I think you told us you were there about 50 times on photo tours. Normally, a big deal is the preparation for such a trip, but is there something like routine for you so you don't have to do a lot of preparation nowadays? I do a lot of preparation all the time. At first, I didn't know how to go because I was freezing. But I do, when you go that, you have to always, I do rely on them. I trust them, you know, the hunters, the skilled ones. I pick the ones that I know that are good because there are good hunters and there are not so good hunters. But my friends are very good ones. So, and I prepare now that I did for years. I go swimming in the ocean every day, no matter how the weather is. Because I've fallen in the ocean in Greenland in crevices three or four times and that's cold, I can tell you. And so I had to be training a little bit like that and I think it heals everything going in the ocean and it makes you more fit and it makes you prepared if something happens because sometimes you had to put up a tent and warm it up and dry our clothes before we could continue because we were all wet and freezing. So ice sometimes cracks and breaks up. So we have to find a way through to get back to safety. So, yeah, it's also a mentality. You have to keep your head straight and just be afraid afterwards. Have there been any situations where you were in danger photographing in that harsh conditions? I never thought about it that way. But when I'm thinking back, it was probably because we were sometimes like. I was in a little village in East Greenland when there was a storm warning. We shouldn't go out. And my friend, Hunter, living in the next village. And I saw a guy with the binoculars looking out on the sea ice. And I knew it was his brother. He's my friend's brother. I never met him before. And I came to him and he was very angry looking in a way when he saw me. And I just asked him, can I take one picture of him? Just, yes, you can take one. So I took one and he said I finished he said one and then he laughed you know it broke the ice between us and he was telling me that he was looking for polar bears, but I told him there's a storm warning so nobody should get out but he said if we see one we might try to get one, and asked him can you let me know I'm in that little cabin over there can you let me know if you see one, ten minutes later he came running there are five polar bears and my brother is going out and Yelmer is one of the greatest hunters in Greenland and I asked him when he came to the little village where I was, can I come with you? And he said, we're not allowed to take you with us, anybody. So I looked him in the eye and I said, well, I'm coming with you. And it was the longest 30 seconds in my life and he said... Stay behind so i'm i'm not seeing you so you can so i can i will say that you just followed, and so we followed we ran like seven eight kilometers and followed the polar bears and he got one and we had to there's one picture on the exhibition here this little tiny guy and you see the rough eyes and when we when he got shot the polar bear he was trying to escape and he fell on the ice and he was reaching for more bullets they had fallen out of his pocket when we were running so we had no bullets and four polar bears close by which we did not know where, they were but his brother came fast so we were probably in danger for 20 minutes something like that but usually they run away so and that polar bear that was on the ice the other asked me you have to start taking pictures and help me drag it to the safe ice 10 minutes later where the. Ice was open water because the current was so strong and we could see the storm coming from the mountains and so it took us four hours to fight in the storm getting back to safety and the ice was breaking up and it was a moment when Hjalmar said are you insured and I said no I forgot and he said that well if we get a helicopter they will rescue us but you will have to pay for the helicopter and i didn't have any money to pay for a helicopter so i told him you take the helicopter i walk home and that's another 30 seconds of with the long ones and he said we go together and we went back together and when we came to the willies where i was in my cabin and he put his arms around me after 30 years of friendship and he said well i didn't know you could be that tough I wasn't tough I was terrified you know but and I told him I have pictures that. I'm not sure you want the world to see because I don't want to harm you you know do any harm to you and he said silence for a few seconds and he said I want the world to see my life I can't go to the shop like you can. I have to hunt to feed my family. And so it was a great moment. And I asked him if I could give you one wish, what would it be? And he said, give me 25 years back in time when the sea ice was safe. So you learn from them a lot. And you want to, when you photograph them, you want to show the world a life that most of us don't know anything about. Because yeah it's a beautiful life it's fading away in a way yeah. It's a life that is disappearing, and it's also a life that not many people are able to witness themselves. So this is your job kind of as a photographer. But what you've told us just now, it's a story, it's an adventure. How much more is photography for you, apart from taking the pictures in the moment, experiencing all this, being out there on the ice, chasing polar bears, feeling the cold, everything that comes around? I mean, the pressing of the shutter button is just a moment. It's important, but how important is the rest of it? It's very important. A moment for me is, I grew up with, my father gave me books of painters. So I was looking at paintings. I can't paint, so I had to take pictures. And he gave me magazines. He ordered from, I grew up with Stern magazine and old Life magazines that he had collected and gave to me. I remember the great German photographers, Ulrich Mach and Heldt Dwyer, he was in the Arctic. So that was my heroes in photography in a way then. And so it's when you're clicking the moment, like in a painting, they paint like expression of people's faces and certain positions. It's the same in photography. You have to catch the right moment for me and the expression on people's faces and things like that. But when working on the pictures it's also like Eugene Smith in the dark room you create it and I do it in black and white I like black and white much better than color. So it's all the way to finish a picture like that make the atmosphere in it and the feeling you had when you took it it's my opinion on it, and in documentary work you cannot you just do what I can do in a dark room nothing more because that's a very strict rule for me. You cannot add or take anything out in documentary work. You can do it if you're doing advertisement or some artwork, you'd be like an artwork but not in documentary. You mentioned how important black and white photography is to you. And I found one quote where you think we're referring to digital photography and the process of turning a color image to a monochrome, black and white. It hurts your heart when people do that. Yeah, well, I do that. But it's always what hurts my heart is that, am I cheating doing this? I took it in color, so I bought a monochrome, so I can't do it. But I sometimes I always do it when I do a color on a color camera I turn it to black and white right away, it's been taking me years to say you're not cheating, you're not cheating it's just the way you want to see but it probably is, I mean it's in color but the tree is in color and you take a black and white picture isn't that cheating anyway, perhaps, it's the proximity to science so you feel like this Yeah, I mean, you want to be doing it. You want to be honest. Yeah. And do you see in black and white before you take the picture? Yes, yes, yes. I even had sunglasses that looked like it. A lot of photographers who like black and white, they see it in black and white, although it's in pink color. And the good thing with black and white, I really don't like the reason I take a lot of pictures in bad weather because nobody goes out in bad weather and it's the most rewarding pictures. And in the sunshine, it's too much sun. I never like that. And so in black and white, it's more dramatic even when the weather is bad. You've talked about how challenging these conditions are and what they do mentally to you. And I think they have also taken a physical toll on you. Yesterday when you talked about your work, you were referring to some injury you have with your hand, I think. Yeah, they froze. I've been freezing my toes and everything, my face, you know, many times. But my hands froze some three years ago. Yeah three three and a half I took I had two pairs of gloves I took the outer part because I couldn't click anymore I thought the camera was something wrong with it, but it was my fingers so I took it off for 10 minutes and it froze this one still hurts every day, and the others are kind of numb you know the fingertips they were all white and then black, but it's okay I mean, they're going to be fine. It doesn't bother me. It's the only thing, it does a good thing. My wife don't allow me to clean up the dishes because I break them. So there's always something good about everything. Always look on the positive side. Yeah, but that was my stupidity, actually, to take the gloves off. But I was so excited getting the picture. And I got it. And when I look at it, I love the picture, but I also, oh there you are it's a hate long hate relationship with one photograph. Are there any other photographs that stick out that you connect with a special story like that or an experience you had making the picture? I tell stories behind pictures at home and on the internet and on TV every Sunday morning, which we And when I see, I can't forget what I was doing five minutes ago, you know, but if I see a photograph that I took 20 years ago and I look at it and I think, I remember the whole day, you know. So there's a lot of photographs that I, you know, have some feelings about and stories behind that are really, you know, they're stuck with me. And they kind of become my favorites in a way because of the story behind them but it's hard to do that because when you're editing like work or something you have to throw out some pictures that you probably like because we're making books they don't fit in and it's very hard sometimes yeah. You said every Sunday you talk about a picture on TV. Is it an ongoing thing? It's an ongoing thing. It's been now for one and a half years. It's on a webpage. It was a news agency. And they have a lot of sections. So this is one of it. It's on Sunday morning. And then they cut it together and play it on TV on Monday evenings for like three months. And then it's a pause. And then we start again. And I really had fun doing it. Because at least people get to understand a little bit what we are doing because a photograph is just a photograph for people to see and nobody really thinks what's behind it. You had to go there. You have to freeze your ass off and do a lot of things to get it. But a photograph to most people is just a photograph. But now when they hear the stories, they get a different view on it. So I really was happy about that. That people say that you're not just a photographer, you're just doing something that probably might matter to the world in the future, and you are freezing a moment in someone's life that will last forever. And you never know when a photograph becomes an iconic photograph, like the little girl running from the Naf Lombom in Vietnam, and Minamata, Yuchi Smith, Tomoko in the bath. It's beautiful photographs. It's like legendary work. Do you remember any situations or are there any images you couldn't get and you remember? Oh yeah. I lost it. Always, yeah. Yeah, I think it's sometimes getting worse now because I'm doing all eight Arctic countries now, like a journey through them, and I'm probably 60% done. But I was going to Siberia, and the war broke out, so I couldn't go, and I went straight to Greenland. And I didn't know that I had been trying to get a photograph of an old man living. He's the last man in the Willits called Cap Hope. And I never got him, actually. So I went and I drove to his Willits with a friend of mine, Yelmer, his dog lad. And he was there. And he was leaving the Willits. He was going to hospital and he was leaving for good. And he had 20 brothers and sisters. The two of them left. And he had four wives or girlfriends, they're all dead. And he sees ghosts, tiny little hidden people, and he's terrified of them. They rescued his father, he said, when he was young, on the ice. And he did something to them that they didn't like, so he was afraid of them. And good stories. And when he was leaving. I photographed him looking back, and he said there's no hope in Cap Hope anymore it was the last man standing in the Willets and houses are crumbling down filled with snow, and all that and I asked a woman in the Willets do you believe his stories about the ghosts and she said no we didn't but he showed us little comic boots that was found on his loft nobody knows how to make them so we started maybe he's right, whether he's right or not the story is good so I write those stories down and I, I write them down just to keep with it, give them a voice and tell it's a part of their life. So it adds something to the picture. And this is a moment that I got that I had always missed. I wanted to get, I missed, he was gone. I've been there many, many times and I was always like, oh, he left one hour ago. So finally I got there and he was there. So it sometimes comes back that you're trying to get. You did a book about dogs, Arctic heroes, and in the title it's not about men, it's about dogs. So that implies that dogs have a very special meaning for the people living out there. They're not just dogs, they have their personality and they're vital for the people, for their survival. And you also told some beautiful stories about particular dogs or something that the Inuit and the people you met out there, the hunters, they told you about their dogs. Can you share some of those stories and tell what's the importance of the dogs for the people? The Greenlandic Slat Dog is probably among the oldest dog breed in the world. I think they found bones in Greenland 7,500 years old, something like that. And the culture has been there 4,500 years, and the Inuits living there now is about 1,100 years. And without the Greenlandic slat dog, there wouldn't be any Inuits. And the stories they told me, how special dog, they're different characters. And you have stupid ones, you have clever ones, and you have bad guys and good guys. And I was trying to learn to see it in their eyes, so I had clapped the wrong dog so many times. But the clever ones, they are really... Clever. And the stories they told me, as I wrote in the book, how they took them home when all things, well, it was over. They didn't see, they couldn't, like one, to make a long story short, it was a guy, he had taken his dogs once a certain route. And when he was getting back home there was a storm and he couldn't see his hand and the dog was just all low and they. Found a way in the storm they smelled their way the leader dog was such a clever dog, two of them, and so there are many stories like that but they didn't want to tell those stories, they had to drag it out of them like my friend Ole who told me a story about Kendo which means black dog and we named our publishing company after that dog because the story was so beautiful and Ole told me about it was his best friend and it was a beautiful story but he was not going to tell me stories he says they're going going with me to the grave and i had been there for a week talking to him and and and the day before i left the village i told him well you have to write those stories down for your kids and grandchildren your ancestors because it's beautiful stories and i know there are beautiful stories you have and he said oh let's think about it and next day he said i'll tell you the stories he told me story about kendo which is in the book and whether he had finished the story he cried and he said I'll tell you more story next time there was no next time he died three months later so but I got a few stories from him and they are in the book and I promised him that I would only run it in the book and in the book it is to honor him and his legacy and the story. The dogs are really really great heroes actually alongside with the hunters they need each other so many stories uh you heard and and you're documenting a world that is slowly disappearing now and and with that uh there's disappearing the wisdom of the people who've lived in these conditions for so many years is there anything that you've learned from these people about life about approaching life or oh yeah i learned a lot i like i i i learned and I'm being like humble towards this kind of life because when I came first, I was kind of, I was a young man, kind of arrogant, thinking about it and saying that, well, we the Vikings, we could beat you with bare hands easily. So we make a bet how he was going to stay out longer with your bare hands. I was five minutes, he was 25 minutes. So it was like you learn to be humble towards and respect that. And respect other things everywhere, you know, whatever life on earth. It made me rethink everything and they have a lot of knowledge. I have a lot of friends, scientists and I always urge them to say like one of my friends, scientists said you have to learn from him and he went with me and said thank you, I learned a lot because they know a lot of things about what's happening on our planet and climate change and all that but those guys know a lot The first impression that I was in Tule, I think it was 86, and I passed a guy's house, and he was always saying something, Greenlandic, which I didn't understand. So on the fifth day, I asked the teacher in the Willets, can you translate what he's saying? And he said those sentences, these words, there's something wrong. It shouldn't be like this. The big ice is sick. He was talking about the Greenlandic ice cap, the whole ice cap. And he felt it. He was an old man. Yes, he knew that, and he saw that things were changing. I'm not blaming you or me for what's happening, but I leave that to scientists to tell us. But I think it's important for me and everybody to document this kind of changes in life. It supports what they are saying, maybe, and it also shows others that there is life, and this kind of life is changing. It will be, the young generation doesn't want to be hunters anymore. They want to live a different kind of life. So, and the dogs population, there were 30,000 dogs from 10 years, 11 years ago. Now there's about 10, 11,000 left. So it shows how it's going down too. Slowly going back, the population of the dogs, the hunters, the one to look for other ways of life. Are there any other signs that you've witnessed over the decades that you've been going back and forth, how it has changed? Yeah, you see the glaciers retreating. Like in Iceland, you see them, they retreat somewhere 100 meters a year. You see a thinning. I saw that as a kid and they have been smaller before they've been bigger but this is happening now our planet is in that phase this is ongoing and, in Greenland I flew with my friend scientist up to Tule we flew up all the glacier and when we were heading back from Kanak down to Elilisat we were flying up all the glacier it was all grey and I was saying this, I've never seen this before it's all grey, it was slush and NASA, it was the same time NASA took the satellite photograph, showing 97% of the glacier melting which is also a phenomenon that happens 150 years every 150 years but we were there above when it was happening so seeing that was kind of scary and all the blue lakes, thousands of them on the surface of glacier that's something that the numbers of blue lakes are increasing actually so it's melting. I imagine you've been asked this question many times but doing these kind of photographs what is it that you try to to make an impact with or do you think you can make an impact with your pictures or what is it that you'd like for people to take away that look at your pictures That's a good question. I just want to show the world or those who see it what's happening. I get hit on a lot by people saying this is not happening, it's just bullshit, but they've never been there. So I just wanted to photograph and make books. We made our own company because we didn't want to go on our knees to some publishing company, didn't understand it either. So we made our own, oh, we'll just do it. So we did all the books we did, Paisled and all. And then we did Glacier, we did Arctic Heroes and Where the World is Melting, which is in collaboration with Keter in Germany, a great publisher. And so in the exhibition in Munich, we did that catalog book, Where the World is Melting. It shows places where it is melting or changing. So I want just... At least make people think about it. That's the reason we want it. It's a passion, something. I don't know. It's something that's called stupidity, being so stubborn doing it, I think. But I think it has to be done and documented. And it has to be show, be aware of how people live and show people in the pictures, not just iceberg floating around. They're going to be there for a thousand years floating like that, that people will be different and life will be different. When you look into the future, what's your scenario? What are you projecting from now into the future? Do you see any signs of hope that we might learn what we've done wrong in the past and be able to correct course? I'm always optimistic about it. I hope so. But sometimes you think, like my friends, scientists say that the Icelandic glaciers will disappear in 150, 200 years. And even if you would flip the switch now, they would still melt. And so that's a scary thing to hear. But I wanted to, like, I think every one of us has to do maybe something. I'm not saying we should stop the wheels turning around the planet. But you have to say with your grandchildren when they ask you grandfather, grandmother why didn't you do anything you know, you leave it for us to solve it, so I think at least being, we all have to continue living but yeah, It would be stupid to ignore it, not realizing that if there's something you can do, you should do it. I recently talked with Nick Brandt about this topic as well. And I asked him a question if he has the feeling that before COVID, my impression was that the climate debate was very high on the agenda. Also with Greta Thunberg, this movement that she started. But then COVID hit and everything went back a little bit on the agendas of the politicians now we have the war in the Ukraine so many other crises and he rightly mentioned that this is a very European view on the thing that in the US nobody was talking about climate before COVID even and right now with a new bill passed by the president that's been on the agenda So these different perspectives and what's your observation of the state we are right now, the awareness, the global awareness of this problem and the ability to fight it? Yeah, well, those things like the war, it takes over everything in the world. COVID took over, like, thinking about it. But I think what's happening doesn't go away. I believe that the Arctic will be, in the coming years, the biggest issue on the planet anyway, because that is the biggest threat. Of course, it's nuclear threat, I mean, because of the war. That's a big threat. But the other way, if nothing like that happens, then this is the big threat in the Arctic. And all ice will be there. It's melting four times faster than everything, or warming four times faster than anywhere else on the planet. And I've been walking on those pages for nearly 40 years. And I've seen how the ice is thinning on the place where we were hunting. Where we used to be safe it's not safe anymore it's very thin and you have to be very careful sometimes and sometimes you can't even go out, so when you see it at least I mean those, it's like blinking of an eye in Earth's history 4.6 billion years old so it's like blinking of an eye with this time period we are living on but at least it is happening. I wish it wasn't but that's what I've seen right, Yesterday, we went around here looking at the exhibitions of all the other photographers. You've been there as well, looking at the work of your colleagues. What is the impression you took away from this day yesterday? Are there any projects, any images that stuck out for you? There's many. I knew most of them. I look a lot through other photographers' work. I have a huge problem with myself that I cannot envy others. I just, it's making me happy seeing somebody doing something great, and it's a drive, you know. So I see, and I see a great photograph. Oh, I want to do it like that. So, and then I take a picture, and the idea comes from this picture, but you can't see it. It was just something that clicked in the head. It's like writing a song. You hear a good song, and you want to make a better song. I'll try to. And I really enjoyed seeing it, and I want to go today and see it again, you know. And so it's a lot of a lot of great work being done you can always take away something from other from from colleagues uh i knew one mentor of you was uh mary ellen mark yeah i mentioned can you tell the story how you got to know her and and why she is so particularly important. And it's a passion she had. And she died in 2015. I came to her, she was my teacher in Florida. And everybody, the first school day, everybody would bring some fruit or something. And at the time, Iceland didn't have beer. So I brought six pack of beer in the morning for breakfast. And she laughed. It's crazy. And we became very good friends. And she and her husband, Martin Bell, he's a filmmaker. They used to work with Attenborough. And they came on holiday every summer to Iceland. And this was a passion and a drive she had. Even when she died, she was working a few hours before. She was a wonderful woman, sadly missed, and one of the greatest photographers ever. Beautiful woman. You did a workshop with her? Yeah. And then she came to Iceland. We had a lot of workshops and holidays. And we helped her when she was there. And... They were great. And I did learn a lot from her. She kicked my ass, you know, constantly and said, like, when I was on the call, I took a photograph and said, why didn't you take more pictures? Well, I was finished. You're never finished. And when I took one photograph in Greenland, I remember her words. I was sitting, we were heading back home after two weeks on the sea ice in very cold conditions, and I was trying to capture the hunter sitting. I was behind him on the dog sled. And I thought I had the picture, so I was freezing, and I put my cameras down, and I could hear her voice keep on taking pictures. And I was like, Marielle, do you know how cold it is here? And he replied, I don't care. Take more pictures. And I took it up, and I took the photograph. I thought I had the picture of him, and the picture that I thought I had was not a good one. The picture came just seconds after. So I listened to what she said, and I always, you know, So it was a good thing to learn from her. Yeah. Beautiful story and the importance of having a mentor. You had the luck, the opportunity to meet such a great photographer. But sometimes it can also be photographers you've never met or some mentors that are this voice. It's this voice in your head, as you described, that when you're in this situation, you remember something and then... Yeah, it happens all the time. And what's other photographers like? There's great photographers. James Naqtua, his great, Don McCullen, I met him. And he was actually James Naqtua's mentor, I think. In a way, he was, James Naqtua told once that he was the one he really liked his photographs. And I met Don. He's a legend, he's a great guy. He's an old man now, and now he's photographing. He photographed war, Vietnam and all that, and he's now photographing landscapes, and it's his passion. When I get old in 100 years, I want to do it the same. One other thing I'd like to touch on with you is that there's this debate about photography in this age now. What importance does photography or still photography have? What kind of impact you can make with a picture? And it's all very fleeting. You referenced to these Instagrammers taking also pictures in your country and Iceland, which are just these snap moments that are quickly forgotten. And you as a photographer looking back on the work from decades. For me, the importance is that you might start, you take one picture and there's the context missing. But now you can look back and document a change that's been going on over decades, like this climate change. So if you give some advice to photographers starting out today, what is it that you would advise them from what you've learned over your career? I think it would be to follow your heart and believe in what you're doing. And for me now, I mean, I have now, what do you say, I have pictures that I can, you know, redo and see so they have some meaning or they will show something that like changes and stuff like that. And I think also just never go away from your own feelings of what you're doing and believe in it. It's hard. I mean, the road is going to be bumpy, but it's rewarding, you know, when you get to the end of the road. Whenever that is. And taking pictures for me, I never felt that I have a good photograph. I always try to get it. So it's a lifetime's quest to go. And in the end, you might get it, you might not. But it's a drive to try to get a good photograph. My friend told me once, when we go together, we always get a good picture. I said, no, what did you say? Don't ever say that again. I never got a good picture. and I think you're through when you think you have a good picture then you just can stop I mean imagine the Beatles if they just they made Hard Day's Night and She Loves You if they would have stopped then they wouldn't be the Beatles today remember you always have to continue and I would, young photographers today it's like there are good ones and there are also ones who take selfies of themselves that's not, it's funny but it's about nothing you know wiggling your ass in front of a waterfall taking pictures of yourself it's not. It's not great right, And photos change. When you look back at photos you took 10 years ago, 20 years ago, and the context has changed, or your relationship to them, how do you see that, your whole archive, when you look at that, your look at the pictures, the images, is it changing? Or yeah and so in a way sometimes yeah but sometimes I feel like I did better things you know we were doing films and when you went on a trip, it was like Christmas waiting for opening up the parcels because you didn't know you took it on film you couldn't see the pictures as you can do now so you never knew whether you got the moment or not when you came back it took a month to process the films and negatives and see and it was rewarding So that was quite fun. But now you can see it instantly. I usually try not to watch it. I just continue. If you watch football games or handball games, you see photographers, they're all looking at the camera and they're missing the moment. So you have to concentrate on the moment, I think. But I try to change, but I always think that if you make a good rock song, why should you make a disco song if you're good at making rock songs? It's the same. I'm not going to try to be anybody else or different. So I just try to stick with my own feelings all the time, how to make a picture. So you continue this path in the years to come now? Yeah, it was hard when you were doing black and white. I grew up in the darkness, so I loved black and white, but because you did some stories, and nobody wanted to publish them because they were in black and white. But it always had to be very I'm going to stick with black and white but my friends were selling a lot using colors, doing color work but I think black and white lives longer. You came into contact with photography at an early age you borrowed the camera from your father when you were around 10 years old so the camera has always been with you Was there ever an idea of doing something else or dedicating your life to something else than photography? Yeah, I did learn to fly and to become a pilot, but there was no jobs for pilots when I finished. Very few hired. There's only Iceland there. So I just, yeah, and I think all my families are pilots, my brothers and nephews, everybody. So they envy me for my job. They're like bus drivers today. And I have, I think, done something that, you know, matters. They did too, but I still fly. So I use both. So it's, and it's more fun flying when you're not working as a pilot. So it's excitement all the time. You made the right decision. I hope so. Well, it's been fascinating listening to you, learning about your career, about your approach to photography. And well, thank you very much for taking the time. It's been an inspiring, fun conversation. Thank you for having me. Thank you very much. Just one more question. Is there any project you are right now planning? Yeah, I'm working on the eight Arctic countries and traveling around all them. Russia, I cannot skip Russia out. I have been there four times, and so I need a little more for that because Russia is such a big part of the Arctic. But also I'm now also doing the consequences somewhere else, like wildfires. I want to go do that. and I went to Africa recently coming from Sierra Leone photographing where the ocean is taking houses breaking them down because of the current it's changing so I'm trying to see the other side of it too I like the cold better though, hopefully you you don't get a good photograph you think it's good because it would mean you are stopping your work so hopefully I hope to get it one day is a different.