Abenteuer Reportagefotografie – Podcast über visuelles Storytelling Cover

Abenteuer Reportagefotografie – Podcast über visuelles Storytelling

Kai Behrmann: Visueller Storyteller und Fotograf
Since 11/2016 458 Episoden

Sean Tucker & Joshua K. Jackson: The Art of Street Photography (Interview in English)

Why personal voice, patience, and understanding your own motivation matter more than the next photographic trick.

20.09.2026 72 min

Zusammenfassung & Show Notes

How do you develop your own photographic language? What does your personality have to do with it? And why does good street photography begin long before you raise the camera to your eye? Sean Tucker and Joshua K. Jackson talk about their new book, The Art of Street Photography, their very different paths into photography, and what happens when you stop looking for quick formulas and start engaging more deeply with your own work. We discuss creative blocks, ethics, personal voice, long-term practice – and why street photography, even in the age of artificially generated images, remains rooted in moments that actually happened.

// Links & Workshops //

Ich war zu Gast im "The Photowalk"-Podcast von Neale James und habe dort über mein Fotobuch „Amor Eterno“ gesprochen. Den Podcast kann ich auch darüber hinaus sehr empfehlen – wenig Technik, dafür viele Gespräche über fotografische Projekte, Ideen und das Warum hinter der Fotografie:

https://photowalk.show/episodes/kai-behrmann-football-photography-argentina

Außerdem gibt es noch einige freie Plätze bei den kommenden Workshops:


⚽ „Amor Eterno“ erscheint in Kürze!

Nach vier Jahren Arbeit an meinem fotografischen Langzeitprojekt über die Fußballkultur in Argentinien ist die Kickstarter-Kampagne für das Fotobuch „Amor Eterno“ erfolgreich abgeschlossen. Das Buch befindet sich nun auf der Zielgeraden und wird in Kürze erscheinen. Eine Vorbestellung ist weiterhin möglich – entweder über die Projektseite oder ganz unkompliziert direkt per E-Mail an mich.

📖 Mehr Informationen zu „Amor Eterno“: https://www.abenteuer-reportagefotografie.de/amor-eterno

📩 Direkt per E-Mail vorbestellen: kaibehrmann@web.de

🚀 „Amor Eterno“ vorbestellen: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/kai-behrmann/amor-eterno

🥁 Der Video-Trailer zum Projekt: https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/1198140137/06178b7212

// Du fragst, wir antworten //

Im Podcast sollst du zu Wort kommen!

Hast du Fragen, spannende Themen oder einfach Gedanken, die du schon immer mal loswerden wolltest? Dann schreib uns!

Unser Q&A-Format lebt von deinen Beiträgen – und wir freuen uns riesig, deine Fragen zu beantworten. 
Egal, ob du Tipps brauchst, neugierig auf unsere Meinungen bist oder einfach eine lustige Anekdote erzählen möchtest – dein Feedback ist herzlich willkommen!

Schick uns deine Fragen & Feedback per Mail an: kaibehrmann@web.de und sei Teil einer unserer nächsten Folgen. 

Keine Frage ist zu klein, zu groß oder zu verrückt – wir freuen uns auf deine Ideen!

// Werbung //

Dies ist der Podcast der interaktiven Lernplattform “Abenteuer Reportagefotografie”. Hier dreht sich alles um visuelles Storytelling in der Street- und Reportagefotografie.

Thomas B. Jones und ich helfen dir, mit deinen Bildern spannende Geschichten zu erzählen - ob in der Familie, in der Freizeit oder auf Reisen. Lerne, wie du die Bilder machst, die dich und andere begeistern.

Es erwarten dich:
  • Live-Webinare
  • Exklusive Podcasts
  • Fotografie-Geschichte: Was du von den großen Meistern lernen kannst.
  • Regelmäßige Aufgaben mit ausführlichem Feedback 
  • Videokurse
  • Eine aktive Community auf Discord für den direkten Austausch
Kostenlose Probemitgliedschaft

Wirf selbst einen Blick hinter die Kulissen unseres exklusiven Mitgliederbereichs und stöbere in den Inhalten.

Du kannst „Abenteuer Reportagefotografie“ eine Woche lang kostenlos und unverbindlich im Rahmen einer Probemitgliedschaft testen.

Mit unserem Newsletter bleibst du immer auf dem Laufenden.

Aktuelle Workshop-Termine findest du hier: https://www.abenteuer-reportagefotografie.de/erlebnis-workshops

Unser Buch: "Mit Bildern Geschichten erzählen: Wie du Storytelling gezielt in deiner Fotografie einsetzt" (dPunkt-Verlag)

Du hast Fragen oder Feedback? Dann schreib uns gerne – wir freuen uns, von dir zu hören: kaibehrmann@web.de

// Danke sagen //

Der "Abenteuer Reportagefotografie"-Podcast ist kostenfrei und wird es auch immer bleiben. Ich freue mich, wenn ich dir Inspiration für deine Kamera-Abenteuer biete.

Falls du Danke sagen möchtest, kannst du mir per PayPal eine Spende zukommen lassen. Oder du schaust auf meiner Amazon-Wunschliste vorbei. Dort habe ich Dinge hinterlegt, mit denen du mir eine Riesenfreude machen würdest.

Herzlichen Dank!

// Hinweis //

*Bei einigen der Links in den Shownotes handelt es sich um sogenannte Affiliate-Links. Wenn du die verlinkten Produkte kaufst, nachdem du auf den Link geklickt hast, erhalte ich eine kleine Provision direkt vom Händler dafür.

Du zahlst bei deinem Einkauf nicht mehr als sonst, hilfst mir aber dabei, diese Webseite für dich weiter zu betreiben.

Ich freue mich, wenn ich dir Inspiration für deine Kamera-Abenteuer biete.

Transkript

And then I just kind of said to myself, yeah, this is what I want to do. I want to do photography as a career. So I kind of just quit my job with no fallback whatsoever, much of my parents' horror. And yeah, just tried to make it work.
Sean Tucker
00:00:17
And I think I started falling out of love with photography because it just ended up being a bit of paint by numbers. There wasn't a lot of creativity. I just had to replicate the same results in every shot. And so for me to kind of rescue my love of photography I started getting off the train on my way home one stop early so instead of five minutes walk home I had like 45 minutes half an hour walk home and I just took my phone and tried to give myself the challenge of at least making a frame somewhere along the way that I thought was interesting enough just to post and just as a way to kind of reactively start to to make images again that weren't so controlled and tight but that actually would just, I think that's interesting. I don't even know why, let me grab it. And that was the start of street photography.
Kai Behrmann
00:01:04
Yeah, exactly. And I'm excited to learn about that, how the process was to get to this book here that's just come out, The Art of Street Photography. We're going to talk about your new book. And yeah, I think it's a good moment then to hit record. Otherwise, we might already talk about things that are interesting for our conversation. So thank you, Josh and Sean, for taking the time to talk about your new book.
Sean Tucker
00:01:33
No worries, yeah.
Joshua K. Jackson
00:01:35
Thank you for having us.
Kai Behrmann
00:01:36
Sean, you've already been on the podcast twice. Good to see you again. And Josh, it's nice to see you. I've watched a couple of YouTube videos. You're a repeating guest on Sean's YouTube channel. So I feel that I already know a little bit about you. But yeah, to get us started, what I'd like to know, I did some research and I learned that you started in finance and as an economist, if the internet can be trusted on that?
Joshua K. Jackson
00:02:11
The internet can be trusted sometimes. But it's, so I studied economics at university, and then I went into work into headhunting in the city. So I didn't work in like finance for a bank. I was the person kind of headhunting people into those roles. So specifically, we did corporate governance, so audit risk and compliance, you know, a senior level within investment banking and various different tranches within finance. So, yeah, did that for 10 years. And then at the start of 2017, decided to leave that behind and just pursue photography full time.
Kai Behrmann
00:02:50
Yeah. Now you're hunting images on the streets.
Joshua K. Jackson
00:02:55
Yes, yes. I'm failing most of the time, unfortunately. But yeah, it's nice to be walking around rather than being sat at a desk all day, for sure.
Kai Behrmann
00:03:05
Yeah, yeah. Let's get a little bit more into detail how that transition took place. Where what was it exactly that drew you into photography and that's now become the center of your life?
Joshua K. Jackson
00:03:22
I like to think I've always been quite a creative person and I have more of a strength for, thinking in a visual sense. And, you know, I was in this kind of corporate desk job environment, and there wasn't any option to be creative in any way, shape or form. You know, essentially, it was like a sales job. You were wearing a suit, and there was just no creativity there. And I, and I tried to do things outside of work to kind of nourish my soul, essentially. And I, one of those things that I ended up doing alongside kind of painting and things like that as well was picking up photography. And I did it very, very kind of casually. And then in August 2017, I stumbled across some videos by Ted Forbes, the art of photography on YouTube, and he was talking about street photography. And he did a video on Ernst Haas, he did another one on Soul Lighter. And I was like, oh, this is, this is really interesting to me, maybe I can go off and try this. And what was exciting was that with street photography, there weren't really any barriers to entry. So you could just go pretty much anywhere with whatever equipment that you had and just kind of start practicing. And I did it for three months. And then I just kind of said to myself, yeah, this is what I want to do. I want to do photography as a career. So I kind of just quit my job with no fallback whatsoever, much to my parents' horror at the time. And yeah, just tried to make it work. And I had a couple of friends that, you know, helped me out with a couple of little commercial gigs. You know, looking back on it, I just, I didn't have, I mean, I don't know, have a clue what I'm doing now even, but back then I really didn't have a clue what I was doing, but they did me, they got me some little commercial jobs that kind of ticked me over for the first year or two, and then things just kind of snowballed from there. And then, you know, we're at the stage where I'm fortunate enough to have worked on a book with one of my best friends. And, you know, things are moving in the right direction. Let's just say that.
Kai Behrmann
00:05:34
Yeah. Yeah, next, I want to know how you two met and now are good friends. But before that, Sean, you also have quite an interesting career and what led you into photography. You started working with the church, then you did commercial photography. And I believe it was around the same time around 2016-17 that you got into street photography in one of your videos you were talking about that that yeah you got kind of bored of photographing commercial jobs and that street photography was an outlet also for you to to be more creative and to go out there and photograph different things how was that exactly and and what does that sound in your words, your start in street photography?
Sean Tucker
00:06:21
Yeah, at the time I was doing product photography, which anyone who does that will tell you, it's really technical and it's not very interesting. It becomes a bit of a production line. You know, they'll bring in products that need to be shot from the same angles, every product with the same lighting to keep consistency, same backgrounds. And I think I started falling out of love with photography because it just ended up being a bit of paint by numbers. There wasn't a lot of creativity. I just had to replicate the same results in every shot. And so for me, to kind of rescue my love of photography, I started getting off the train on my way home one stop early. So instead of five minutes walk home, I had like 45 minutes, half an hour walk home. And I just took my phone at the time because my, you know, I mean, I had my big kind of DSLRs on my back, but like I had mixed feelings about them because they just became that tool I use for work. And I just used my phone and started photographing whatever I saw on the way home and tried to give myself the challenge of at least making a frame somewhere along the way that I thought was interesting enough just to post. Just as a way to kind of reactively start to make images again that weren't so controlled and tight, but actually were just, I think that's interesting. I don't even know why, let me grab it. And that's kind of, that was the start of street photography. And then I think I picked up the first... Fuji x100 camera that came out and that became my little sort of sticking in my bag that i could pull out and make images as i as i went along so that's where it started yeah and it would have been about 2016 2017 somewhere in there that i think i i began that yeah
Kai Behrmann
00:07:56
And now you've published a book together the art of street photography not just as a collaboration on this book but you also did it as two friends working on this book together and it has quite an interesting backstory story, Sean. The original idea was to publish more like a street photography manual or more technical guide, or at least that was the idea of the publisher when they first approached you. How did you then go about changing the concept of the book over time? And yeah, what were kind of the steps in between to get to the final book?
Sean Tucker
00:08:36
It's slightly different from that. I think, I mean, I'll let Josh talk about this because the publisher actually approached Josh first to sort of talk about a particular kind of book. Do you want to do you want to go for it?
Joshua K. Jackson
00:08:45
Yeah. So you're correct in saying that they wanted us to or they wanted me to do a kind of how to guide on street photography. And I was just I was just very reluctant to. Make a book like that because there's there's lots of good information out there already. You can walk into any bookshop in any city and there's. Tens and tens of books that, you know, say pretty much the same thing in terms of this is how you do street photography. And I didn't want to kind of dictate an approach. I wanted to make something that encourages a lot more introspection, challenges the reader to ask themselves questions. And overall, it's actually a good book to look at photography, as well as something that's interesting to read, and the way that we kind of we'll go on to how kind of Sean came into it but, I wanted to make something that's almost like the if, antithesis is the right word to this kind of short form content tips you know, bullet points of this is how you do things to something that's much more long long form that you need to sit with and philosophical um and then i just kind of, i i said to them well would you be interested in a book more of this nature um i think, you know and and to their credit they trusted us to kind of arrive at the book pretty much that we wanted and then i had a conversation with Sean and said, you know, I know that I'm not a very good writer. If you know anything about Sean, he loves writing. I always tease him for the length of his emails. And yeah, I just had a conversation with him. And I said, look, this is kind of my vision for the book. I want this kind of balance between imagery and text. Would you be comfortable taking more of a leading role in terms of the writing with both of our thoughts and ideas throughout, each chapter and throughout the book um and sean said yeah let's do it um and then we just kind of got to work um and went through a process of, you know identifying things that we wanted to say in terms of subject matter um, things that are maybe uh not discussed in other books uh particular topics or ways of uh approaching the genre, and making something for, you know, I think it's a book that I would have wanted to read maybe five, six years ago. And even stuff in there now is stuff that I need to remind myself, whether I'm going through a bit of a rut or, you know, maybe I look out the window and it's raining and I think, oh, maybe I won't go out today. There's stuff in there that's useful for Sean and I, as well as anyone else, hopefully, whether they're just starting out or just need a bit of a refresher in terms of how they're doing things.
Kai Behrmann
00:11:44
Mm hmm. That's the good thing about writing a book. It's not hopefully helpful for the readers, but also for oneself as an author, you know, makes you reflect on your own work, makes you go back to certain times. And yeah, just in putting it down into words, it helps you to, yeah, kind of refresh things, as you said. Um sean you've written uh another book the meaning and the making before and now this one so so writing is a big part of your your work you also prepare your uh youtube videos very thoroughly you write a script and then you just go off of the script but uh yeah you do a lot of writing um how how has that shaped your your your work as a photographer this this writing in the background because, as Josh said, he doesn't consider himself a very good writer. And I think many photographers would agree to say the same. And that's the reason why they take up a camera, not to have having to write, but to express themselves visually.
Sean Tucker
00:12:51
I don't know how it's affected my photography. I don't know if I can draw a line there. I'm not sure. But I think, and this might surprise people, when people sort of say, what do you do? I mean, I just say photographer because it's easiest. But if I'm honest, I think I'm a communicator before I'm a photographer. Like in the mix of things I do, the subject might be on my YouTube channel, Photography and Filmmaking, photography. But, you know, before I even picked up a camera, I was, you know, giving talks in churches. And I think that's what kind of fired me up. So then even when I started a YouTube channel, I mean, my my ex's joke was that, like, any reason I started a YouTube channel so I could keep preaching, you know, and I'm like, there's a little bit of truth to that. Like, I think and even if you took photography away from me now, I'd still find a way to keep writing and speaking about things I care about. So like in terms of the things that like I really care about, I think communication is probably number one. And then photography is kind of a subset of that. It's a way that I communicate as well as the writing, as well as the speaking, all the making videos, all the filmmaking. You know, it's it's all kind of it's all kind of in that mix. So I see it as like it's just kind of one string to the bow of like the ways that I try and talk about my experience of life or how I see the world. And it's a nice foil to the words, because I think when you write with words, you have to be quite specific and careful. And I feel like when I'm making images, I'm trying at least to be, and this is where Josh has been great for me, I'm trying to be less literal and more creative in terms of the images I make without having to explain it. And just let the sense of something that I intuit about life come through in an image rather than being too deliberate about it. And I mean, this is kind of the whole topic of the book is like the art of street photography. We're trying to say that street photography traditionally has been very reportage and quite literal often in terms of what it's trying to communicate. And I love that we're sort of presenting something that I'm learning and have learned from Josh a lot to try and make images that are very subjective, unashamedly, that this is how I feel about the world and about life. And I'm trying to put that into the images that I make and share them with the world. So in the mix of all those things that I do, I feel like I get to say a lot. And photography is just kind of one part of that for me.
Kai Behrmann
00:15:14
And how did you two first meet? How did that develop your friendship?
Sean Tucker
00:15:21
I reached out to Josh initially. What would it have been like? It was around like 2017 maybe? Something like that. I'd seen Josh's images on Instagram and I'd fallen in love with his work. I thought it was beautiful. And so I just reached out and said, hey, do you want to go for a coffee? And we organized. We met up at the little cafe at Picture House Central, didn't we? Yeah. And just taught for ages. And then we started walking around and making images together and just then started doing that regularly. And I think we also, like lockdown was a good thing for us because josh and i lived on opposite ends of ones with common at the time and so At that time where you could actually we were allowed to go out and go for a walk with one other person josh and i would go out and just do laps of the common or go walking around and making images so it was great to have that other friend who's also a photographer that you could kind of go and do the thing you love doing you know so i think kind of from there and also it's like i i don't shoot with people usually i i don't go around and make images on the street with other people because I find it quite distracting often. And I'd rather go sit and have a chat with somebody and then go shoot on my own. But for me, I don't know about Jess, but for me, like us shooting together was super easy, like because we would chat, but then we'd stop chatting and we'd shoot and we shoot very different things. And like it was very kind of, you get these creative friendships that pop up, I think, where you just kind of intuitively understand what each other are doing and you work together quite well and it doesn't distract. It actually gives you ideas and you push each other. So I quickly picked that up early on and really enjoyed kind of finding those days when we could actually go out together. I think like I think of like apparently Joel Meyerowitz and Gary Winogrand used to go out and shoot together. You know, they shoot quite different styles and different things. But obviously something about them hanging out together kind of elevated them both and sort of they could sort of spark off each other. And I always felt like going out making images of Josh felt a bit like what I imagined that was like for them.
Joshua K. Jackson
00:17:18
Yeah, it's kind of interesting when you shoot in a pair with someone. I'm not a fan of photographing in groups because I find it kind of interrupts your rhythm of seeing and thinking. But if you're with someone that you don't have to feel stressed about holding a conversation or whatever, it's quite interesting to see like, oh, they picked up on that. I haven't noticed that before. Or, oh, they're photographing this way into the light or something. It kind of gives you ideas for how other people are seeing and how they're kind of digesting the environment around there. And you can certainly pick up things from shooting with someone else. You know, Sean picks up things that I overlook and, you know, maybe I pick up things that he would overlook. And it's kind of interesting because you kind of, you sometimes walk around with this kind of unseeing familiarity in a particular place. And it kind of just gives you that kind of tap on the shoulder to, yeah. Actually, there is stuff here that you may be overlooking. So it's quite an interesting exercise to go through.
Kai Behrmann
00:18:23
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it resonates with me. I can relate to that. I also find it hard to shoot with another person. But if you find someone that inspires you and that makes such a creative energy going, then it's very fruitful. What would that be, Josh, that like some things that you picked up from Sean over the time that inspired you to incorporate into your own style of shooting? And then after that, of course, the same question to you, Sean. Yeah.
Joshua K. Jackson
00:18:59
I i don't want to speak for sean in terms of what he looks for but i have noticed that he's very uh he's very drawn to light um, like moth to a flame um and you know i i noticed that wherever there's a patch of light it immediately pulls in his interest whereas on the flip side i'm maybe looking for, like some kind of an anomaly um you know in the kind of mush of the everyday things, and I think I probably need to pay more attention to light sometimes, whereas, that's almost secondary for me. I don't necessarily think, oh, there's a nice patch of light there. Maybe something can happen here. I'm looking for something happening, and if the situation is – if the conditions are right, then so be it. If they're not, then they're not. So I've definitely learned to maybe if there is an interesting patch of light or texture or whatever, maybe stay with that for a little while. And things can come from that. And I have got some images using kind of more of a Sean approach than my typical approach. And I think Sean's probably more patient than me as well in terms of staying with things and eking out an image, whereas I just keep walking around, often rudderless. But every now and then, by blind luck, you stumble across something.
Sean Tucker
00:20:22
For me, there's lots of different things with Josh. One is he looks for the unusual. He'll find the thing that's sticking out. And because he knows the areas in London he shoots so well, he recognizes the rhythms and the patterns of things that go on. And immediately when something's slightly out of place, he's drawn to that. And it's not even just subjects. I think there's obvious things like we'll walk around and we'll see someone who's a character who's walking around, and the street photographers will flood towards that. Josh will often go like, no, it's not interesting to me because they're an obvious character or they're trying to be noticed. He's looking for people that accidentally are different or just by their nature, they're different and they're doing something different. The motion or the action or the moment is different. So when you know a place super well, like he does like when it's when something happens at out of place he's immediately onto it and like It's i mean something we talk about in the book as well and it's very much josh's idea this kind of idea the unrepeatable moment you know where you're looking for something that is happening today but may never happen again you know and you have to know a place to know what those things are and and he he's very good at grabbing something that you can look at as an image and go i don't even understand what's happening here what's going on why would they be doing that why is this occurring you know and it makes you look longer for that and it's the part that i'm missing so josh says you know i'm drawn to light and shadow and i am like that's that's often the subject but because of that i think my images can come across as a bit stale and sterile like they're a bit empty you know the the visuals the aesthetic is nice because like light and shadow when you capture it in a in a with the right exposure and you you you sort of process that in the correct way can look really eye grabbing, but there's nothing more to it than that, you know, and he's taught me to kind of dig deeper and find ways to incorporate the unusual moments or events within that as well. Because if you can catch that unusual moment or that unrepeatable moment in good light, then you've got something that's like three times more than what I could have got on its own. So to push yourself to find, like notice the rhythms, Notice the things that are changing and the things that may never happen again. It's a big part of what I've learned from Josh. But then also, I mean, and the idea of the art of street photography as a book is, I mean, it's Josh's concept. You know, I don't shoot this way as much as he does. And learning how to abstract things the way that he does, not show everything in the image. I photograph a lot more, I have a lot cleaner frames and I'm composing things, I think, in a lot more obvious way in terms of you can see everything that's happening. He's really taught me to kind of push in to fill the frame to abstract things with materials and reflections in ways that make things look genuinely artistic so for someone like me who can be a little tight and rigid and a bit of a control freak he's kind of watching his images has really kind of loosened me up and taught me to make something that's far more artistic and creative in its output yeah
Kai Behrmann
00:23:26
Josh you are known to take photographs uh in a in a certain area to go back over and over to the same place um that's uh kind of unusual to the approach of many street photographers who who are more attracted to shooting new in new environments and and to well well have the feeling that there's something something new that inspires them and that makes them take take images uh but this approach to to to really work a certain area get to know the area and go over and over again to the same places in your opinion what what are the advantages of doing that and how can that help to to develop a style which is uh essentially also a big part of your book and that uh you you want to help people to to develop their voice in in photography
Joshua K. Jackson
00:24:19
Yeah i mean i i do really enjoy traveling and going to other places but i i sometimes feel if i go to a new environment like if you were to drop me in tokyo tomorrow i think i would just feel totally overwhelmed and think, there's so much to photograph where do i even focus my attention, Um, so I think if I had a specific series in mind or something like that, then, you know, I would go somewhere to do that. Um, but in, in central London where I photograph and I do photograph in other areas to mix it up. Um, but you know, where I mainly focus, I just think it's exciting because each new day brings a new set of possibilities and permutations of kind of things coming together and drifting apart. And look most of the time that there's not, there's there's not an opportunity for interesting pictures, but with perseverance every now and then you'll just uncover something um you know some set of scenarios will come together and then it will never be repeated again um and I find it's in you know exciting to think oh I got that image in Trafalgar Square which is, a really touristy area you know I wouldn't say it's especially photogenic but I can always look back and say oh yeah yeah, in 2020, I got this image in Trafalgar Square or on Lyle Street in Chinatown. You know, I got this image of this guy pulling these noodles up in the light or whatever. So, yeah, I just think with perseverance, you'll just uncover things on a daily basis. And I think maybe there's some value in just repeating the kind of same areas over and over and over again for an extended period. Because if no one else is doing it, then, you know, someone should at least. And I'm just I'm working on a little series on Chinatown at the moment which is nearly done, and you know maybe something slightly further south in Trafalgar Square but yeah I feel comfortable in those areas and I find it's really productive for me, but I can understand why people get bored very quickly but there is a lot of change if you really look at.
Kai Behrmann
00:26:29
What about you sean how would you uh yeah describe yourself are you more a person who enjoys going back to the same places or do you seek new places
Sean Tucker
00:26:41
No i think i i think i enjoy the travel side um i like to sort of photograph in different cities and and see what different places have to offer i i'm i i guess in that way i'm less of like a depth photographer and i don't work on long-term projects as much although i'd like to sort of take that on in the future i think um i enjoy like i love shooting in rome for example because rome has like a a totally different palette you know the the walls there are kind of that that burnt orange there's a lot of texture to the walls as well so it makes these incredible backdrops for light and subjects moving through Um also like i've always had a thing about photographing the light in old churches as well and like when you go around europe and the different styles of churches and so the way that it casts the light i find that stuff fascinating so i i do i do enjoy you know as and when if i go to a new city as well if i'm traveling around for work you know i'll i'll um i'll deliberately just get lost i'm not going to the touristy spots i'll just sort of follow my nose and see where i wind up and take the day and see what i get and i like the fact that kind of through through this stuff that i've made i've got streets from all sorts of different parts of the world and it does mean i sacrifice that depth you know to your work which you can only get if you do something like josh does where you really focus and you dig deep and learn the patterns but it you know in on the other side of it i do i do get a lot of variety and get to try a lot of new things but you know when it comes time to doing something like a monograph or you know a proper body of work then it is time to kind of dig in on one space and really really get to know it well I think my problem is as well I just do too many different things to kind of give it that kind of time and dedication so I'm often doing photography on the side of going somewhere to make a video or to give a talk or whatever so it's kind of fit in the gaps as well a little bit so by necessity there's a lot of travel involved yeah
Kai Behrmann
00:28:38
These are all topics that have to do with mindset, and that's also one of the first chapters in your book, which might at first glance be a little counterintuitive to be a part of a photography book. But why is it important to you to address that topic, the mindset of a street photographer?
Joshua K. Jackson
00:29:01
Do you want to go and say, Sean?
Sean Tucker
00:29:05
The obvious answer is because it has to come at the start of the book, because if you don't get your mindset right, you might not pick the camera up in the first place. It's kind of where we need to begin, you know, working out your your motivation to even pick up the camera or head out the door and work out why you're doing what you're aiming for or what creative blocks you might have to overcome to get out the door. What fears you might have to deal with when you're out there photographing and and what your intention should be when you're actually on the street photographing. What are you trying to do? What are you trying to say? And if someone confronts you, can you give a good answer about your intentions for being out there and making those images? I think if we have that kind of mindset locked in and it's healthy and we know why we're doing it, we've got our why in place, then we can relax and enjoy the how and start to notice and start to make the images. For me, getting that mindset in place first is often the difference between An enjoyable day of making images or a stressful day. So, yeah, we deliberately place that front and center because I think it's where we should all begin in terms of how we make photographs on a day. And we do cover stuff, you know, like what are your creative blocks and dealing with what are you really afraid of? Actually naming the fear. Like, is it judgment of other photographers? Is it confrontation on the streets in a day are you afraid of that is it you know um some kind of perfectionism that you're struggling to get over that you don't think it's worth making an image unless you can guarantee it's brilliant every time like dealing with those fears that we all have in some ways there's none of us that are you know some of us just hide it better than others but we all have those fears we've got to deal with so bringing them out of our subconscious mind into our conscious mind, facing them And then understanding them and accepting them to a point where we can pick up the camera and go out with a little more comfort about what we're doing. And then something else we talk about that I learned from Josh as well. We were talking one day about... You know, what happens when someone does confront you about making images on the street, which doesn't happen to either of us very often, does it? I mean, I can't remember the last time someone said anything to me, but it has happened in the past. And I think we're having this conversation about it. And Josh said to me, and this always stuck in my head that, you know, if you have good intentions, you don't have anything to fear. And that really resonated with me. You know, if I have a good reason to make an image, I'm not trying to shame anybody. I'm not trying to embarrass anybody. I know why I'm doing it. I then always have that ready answer when someone confronts me, which makes me less afraid of confrontation in general because I don't have to be confrontational back and defend my rights. I'm out here as a photographer. I'm allowed. It's legal. You know, and everyone starts pulling out the law and arguing with people. I can literally just say, I'm a street photographer. I really enjoy the streets. I enjoy kind of life that's happening out there. And there was something about this moment here that I captured. And I love it. I celebrate it. Here, do you want to take a look? Involve them with it like i i i really like this idea of if any image can be made and i can stand by image i make if i do it with the best of intentions so we we talk about that a little bit as well
Joshua K. Jackson
00:32:13
Yeah and also the the mindset we, we collectively decided that it has to be right at the front of the book is is because it kind of sets that foundation for every everything else and I think most of us will make our best work when we're in a positive and healthy kind of mindset um, you know and I know it's kind of cliche to say the kind of sad and struggling artist or whatever you know they make their best work but I think in photography when you're out there and feeling more optimistic and open to the possibilities I think, luck seems to come much easier um so we needed that to address that at the start of the book and that lays the foundation and for everything else that we kind of talk about.
Kai Behrmann
00:32:59
I love what you said that it helps to be clear about your own motivation, why you take street pictures. I found that when I get addressed on the streets and get asked why I take pictures, if I don't have a clear answer, I find it hard to persuade other people of what I'm doing. So I think that's fundamental to have that clear because to other people it might be strange, like someone taking pictures out in the street of strangers or situations that they might consider banal. So many people are taking pictures of their family of their people they have a deep connection to and then see someone just take pictures out there and with the possibilities nowadays to share pictures and not knowing where they might show up so it's understandable that people might get a little bit more suspicious of people with cameras in the public um sean you've always tied photography uh to to your character to character to psychology you talk a lot a lot about that and it's very important uh to you and um how did uh did that how did you take what you already addressed in the meaning in the making now to this book
Sean Tucker
00:34:25
Um, this is just more of a practical extension. I think, I think that the meaning in the making is a very kind of philosophical treaties, I suppose, about, you know, where creativity in general comes from and why, why we make things, why we're driven to make things and how we can give those things. We make our flavor based on who we are, how we see the world, our experience, all that kind of stuff. Whereas this book is far more practically pointed at street photography in particular and and not that it shies away from any of that stuff but more how can you then um make sure that you're you're you're capturing that in terms of its practicality so how what subjects we're actually choosing and then giving you ways to abstract the images but based on your sensibility as a as a photographer rather than just trying to find a cool technique you know we're asking people not to make um Just popular images or trying to make images they think it will grab attention on Instagram. We're asking people to think like front to back about why you'd abstract something that way, what it adds, what it then gives you in the storytelling of the image. Forget whether it's popular or not. Like how can you make an image you care about that could only come from you and how you see the world? And then using all those techniques we offer about sort of composition and adding layers of interest to your image or adding different forms of abstraction to your image that are purposeful rather than attention grabbing. That help you tell the story you want to tell or make something in the image that is more narratively rich in the process. So, yeah, I guess the simple answer is it's just the book I wrote before was far more kind of philosophical, theoretical. And this is, there is some philosophy in it, but it's far more practical in terms of how you actually put that into process within street photography.
Kai Behrmann
00:36:17
Mm-hmm. And what would you say, how has your own personality and the questions you've asked yourselves along the way shaped the way you photograph today and to become the photographer that you are at this point?
Sean Tucker
00:36:35
I mean, for me, I talked about a little bit in the meaning in the making, like discovering that I was an introvert and sort of doing personality tests and working out how I'm wired. Made me understand why I make images the way that I do on the street. I think you can feel the difference between an extrovert's images and an introvert's images just by looking at them because of the way they approach stuff. So, you know, somebody like a Bruce Gilden is probably an extrovert, right? Somebody like me is more of an introvert. So I choose to take a step back and capture a scene and my images are often quieter and simpler in terms of their frame and They're not as in your face and that that that's because I'm wired the way I'm wired and I think you know rather than chasing a style of photography you love just because you like the look of it not that you should ignore what you love obviously there's there's signs in that too but it's it's finding out what what images come naturally out of how you see the world and how you move in the world as well so in London even when I lived there you know I was always taking the quieter back streets I was not walking down Oxford Street because that's that's how I'm wired I don't really enjoy the crowds. And so it's obvious then when I when I put everything together, that I make the quieter images because I'm a quieter person. So it's trying to work out like what flows naturally out of out of how you're constructed as a person. So all those sorts of things, other things like color palette, you know, my color palette was quite muted for a while. And that makes sense, although that's even changing now. And I blame Josh for a bit of that. He's really kind of taught me about color and how to push it a little bit as well because i was i was i've got a video coming up about this on sunday about how i did play it very safe for years and photographers like josh pushed me to to actually use color as part of the communication tool rather than just playing it safe because you're worried about people accusing you of over processing your images so that's even shifting as well um but it all comes out of like yeah what what fits with With my personality and that that means both how i am when i'm on the streets in terms of what i'm comfortable to do and not but also in in what i want to say you know how i want to present the world the one example i give in the in the meaning in the making is That, you know, I started posting images for a while and a lot of people said to me, oh, this reminds me of Edward Hopper's work. And he was a painter in the 50s in New York. And he would paint rather than frantic New York at the time. I mean, New York was never busier before that point. But he would choose to paint single figures alone in interesting light and shadow, you know, again and again. And when I looked at that work, I realized he's painting. He's not painting what New York looked like then. He's painting what we feel like in a city often. That even though we're surrounded by people, we often feel alone. And then when I work back towards my images, I was photographing a lot of single figures in isolated light and shadow. And I thought, like, maybe that's coming out of my character. You know, maybe I'm photographing myself in a way and how I move in a city. And that's why it's coming out that way. So I would always, and I do when I give talks, I always encourage people, you know, it's fine to watch YouTube tutorials giving you techniques, but it's also worthwhile doing some work on working out who you are do some journaling go to counseling you know do a personality test how are you white how do you see the world because the best work you make will come genuinely out of who you are so it's time worth worth spending digging in on that a little bit
Kai Behrmann
00:40:03
What about you, Josh? Would you also say that your style or the way you photograph is rooted in the person you are, in your personality? Is that something visible in your images that reflects your personality?
Joshua K. Jackson
00:40:22
Yeah for sure and working on this book with Sean it helps or it has helped assimilate a lot of my thoughts about, you know well what am I doing and why do I do it so you know I'm, like Sean I'm more of an introvert um you know I'm I view myself as you know usually on the periphery rather than you know the life and soul of things and I tend to photograph that way I'm normally on the periphery of the action, photographing. And maybe I use a slightly longer lens at times than what convention kind of dictates that you should. But I find that is a reflection of who I am and how I like to approach my work. And, you know, I'm just trying to put my own spin on this time. And whether that has any value or not, who am I to say? But I'm just trying to make photographs in my own voice, in my own way, that are kind of a reflection of who I am.
Kai Behrmann
00:41:17
Has there been a time when you also realized something in your images that you hadn't realized in the moment when you took them? Sean gave the example of people approaching him saying that his images reminded them of Edward Hopper, and that only then he dug a little deeper into it and realized that this is actually true and reflects the way he resonates or he reacts to the world. Is there a similar thing in your photography where that occurred?
Joshua K. Jackson
00:41:53
Yeah, occasionally someone would say, oh, this reminds them of a scene from a particular movie or this person looks like so-and-so or whatever. Yeah, that happens. I can't remember what it was. There was an image a couple of years ago I shared online and someone said, oh, this reminds me exactly of this scene from this film. And I was like, okay, that's cool. I'll check it out. But yeah, it happens, occasionally, for sure.
Kai Behrmann
00:42:20
Yeah. Okay. Making this a little bit broader, the question, what are the variables that in the end shape your style as a photographer? What all comes into play when it comes to acquiring over the time, develop a personal style? Well, you said someone said to you that it reminded them of a movie still scene. I also find your images very cinematic. They have this cinematic style and could very well be movie stills. So is that something that comes from love of cinema? Or how does that all come about?
Joshua K. Jackson
00:43:07
I think it was just a byproduct of photographing at night and kind of having that cinematic feel with some neons in it. But no, it wasn't something I was consciously thinking of at the time. I just thought, oh, this is interesting. I'll make a frame in the best way I see fit. But yeah, in terms of the variables, obviously there's the things that you can control, like making sure that you have the right mindset and your camera, you're prepared in order to make the moments. And then everything else is out of your control because you know you're dealing with completely unscripted subject matter, and that's both exciting and challenging and I think that's one of the things that's really exciting about street photography is that kind of the variability in terms of, you know the people the marks that we leave behind the weather conditions the changes images in the city, all of those variables are exciting and they create opportunities for images. And that's the kind of subject matter that you kind of want to embrace fully. So yeah, there's so many variables on any given day. And then every now and then those variables will come together perfectly and you have a little moment of clarity in the.
Kai Behrmann
00:44:25
Mm-hmm sean when you write um do you have a a specific audience in mind or a specific reader uh this is a technique that some authors use when they they write or do you write from a different point of view
Sean Tucker
00:44:43
Yeah me uh i know it sounds narcissistic but i think i think you have to write the book you want to read is the best way to do it if you try for me if i try write for too broad an audience i'll i'll make it too middle of the road and safe you know i i try as far as possible just to write for that audience of one and say which is the book i would really want to pick up and would get a lot of value out of because there's there is that group out there who think like me i don't know how big they are or small they are but i know they're out there and i'd rather have something that's got a clear voice and point of view rather than isn't that clear because it's trying to play it safe and reach a broader audience i think those are more forgettable books so yeah i'm always just trying to write for For myself as far as possible you know and and and write the things i know um you know if i pick that book up now i'd find that very encouraging or very helpful or very challenging you know that's that's the best way to approach it it's it's like making images isn't it i think if if you try and make images for broad audience appeal on Instagram, you're probably going to make forgettable images that in five years, no one cares about. But if you try and make images that have a real point of view that maybe most people don't get, but you really get, I think those stand at the chance of becoming something people pay attention to over time because they're braver. They've got more of a perspective that stands out from the trends of the day. So I think it's true of all artistic output, I think.
Kai Behrmann
00:46:15
I think it was Rick Rubin who said something along the lines of ignore the audience, which sounds kind of brutal at first, but then as you explained, it makes total sense. You stay more true to yourself as an artist and produce the work that then hopefully resonates with other people, but it comes from a point of authorship, from a point of view that you have and that you want to transmit rather than just pleasing someone else out there.
Sean Tucker
00:46:45
Yeah, I mean, I learned this the hard way. Like, I wrote a book when I was 30. So that was the first book I wrote. It was way back then. And it was a book about leaving the church and why I was leaving the church and how I felt about my journey, that whole journey at the time, which I self-published back in South Africa. And I now look back on that book and I regret it because it was a book for nobody, you know, because I was trying to play it so safe. I didn't want to offend friends who I still had in the church, but I, and I didn't want to push the boat out too far because I was scared of the consequences at the time. And so it's kind of this book which which doesn't really say anything you know it's it's interesting in some of the stories it tells but it doesn't have a perspective because I'm too scared to put my stamp on it and I think after I wrote that book I just promised myself I'm never doing that again if I'm going to make a mistake I'm going to make a mistake of saying things too clearly and well and people disagreeing with it rather than kind of saying nothing for fear someone would disagree with it if that makes sense so yeah it's always just been a it's been kind of a philosophy for that ever sense.
Kai Behrmann
00:47:51
Mm-hmm. Josh, how was the process of putting the book together? Most of the images come from you and Sean wrote the text. How did that cooperation work? Was it a chapter Sean wrote and then you went into your archive and looked for some images that fit the chapter or how did that process?
Joshua K. Jackson
00:48:22
Yeah, so we identified, I think it was 30-something chapters in the end, and we canned a few of them because we didn't feel that maybe they had enough meat on the bones. And then we split the chapters into 50-50. Sean wrote all of his kind of book-ready first time, and then, I wrote the other 50% with things that I wanted to say in kind of abbreviated notes, essentially. And then what was really, really important is that the book has one voice throughout. Because if you read a book that's written by two different people, it's a bit jarring, it can be. So Sean basically took the things that I wanted to say in those chapters and then wrote them all in his voice so it's kind of. Consistent throughout and harmonious. So that's the kind of way that we worked. But in every chapter, the ones that Sean wrote 100% or the ones that I kind of had my ideas in. We both had collective things that we wanted to say in every chapter and talking points, and then those were all fleshed out and put into proper English by Sean. And then after the writing was done, we then went through images together and then kind of did some sequences for images that fit with like the Echoes of Humanity chapter, you know, street photographs about people and, you know, maybe I have more images for those chapters. So we plugged them in and, um, that's the kind of way that we worked.
Sean Tucker
00:49:58
It was a nice exercise as well, I think, because it's always risky working with a friend. You don't actually know, especially because photographers can have big egos, right? So it's always like, how's this going to work? And I felt like, I don't know if you felt the same stuff, but like somewhere in the middle, like we were trying to do everything 50-50 and then we suddenly realized like there's a stronger book to be had here if we just play to our strengths. You know, I had to admit, and I'm very happy to admit that like, I think Josh is a much better street photographer than me because it's his sole focus. It's what he focuses I've got a lot of different things I do you know and also his images are much better at demonstrating the style of photography we're really promoting in this book so I think I could have got like oh yeah but it should be 50 percent my images and Josh could have been like no it has to be 50 percent my writing you know and we could have gotten our higher horses about it but we both just looked at each other and went no no no we want this to be the very best the strongest book it can be and it was such a great experience just to go like yeah well let's just play to our strengths and I I handed over because Josh is also a brilliant sequencer of images and which is not really a strength of mine it's something I'm still trying to learn and so we really kind of like at the start we sat together and talked everything out like a lot of the ideas in the book are Josh's ideas they're not mine but like it made sense that I sort of took the bulk of the writing because I've got that experience and it made sense that Josh took over on the images side so I just gave him a folder of my images and said No pressure like use what you want and don't use what you want and use yours and let's just make the very best image sequence we can for that chapter and i won't take offense if there's none none of my images in that chapter and and honestly like we're both now so proud of it because it really is the very best layout sequencing and construction of a book we could make and it did take both of us i mean it was never even a conversation but it did take both of us just going like yeah it doesn't matter if i have less images in the book it doesn't matter if josh has less of his words in the book even though the ideas, a lot of the ideas are his, let's just do the best thing we can. And it was a really good um lesson in if you're gonna work with somebody you know put your ego in your pocket and just play to your strengths and produce the best best piece of work you can at the end of the day and yeah it worked out incredibly well i'm really happy with it
Joshua K. Jackson
00:52:16
Yeah i think it's a much more rounded book now um because you know the quality of the writing obviously i'm biased but i think the quality of Sean's writing, you know, in his voice is brilliant. And, you know, I just love how kind of deep, how much detail there is in every topic, rather than just a few bullet points with a couple of little thumbnails to illustrate the point. We've tried to do deep dives in lots of different things. And, you know, not necessarily just street photography related, I think it can transcend some genres. It's been interesting to have landscape photographers reach out and say, oh, I got a lot of value from these chapters within the book. They're things that I wasn't really thinking about before. And we wanted to write a book that would appeal to people maybe just starting out or people that are further along their journey and just need a kind of refresh of things or to rejuvenate their way of seeing and thinking. So we tried to make something really broadly appealing. And yeah, I couldn't be more proud of it.
Kai Behrmann
00:53:24
Yeah, I really enjoyed reading the book and going through it and looking at the picture. It's a great book. And as you said, it's a book that you're probably going to pick up many times that it's not a book that you read and then put aside or put away. But yeah it's a good reference point to go every to go back over time and refresh things just as the meaning and the making it's one of these books that yeah you always discover something else depending on the the point of the time that you picked it up the first time you know with your developing over time you change as a person as a photographer your point of view changes and something you've read before might then have a totally different meaning to you.
Joshua K. Jackson
00:54:18
Thank you very much.
Kai Behrmann
00:54:20
Yeah. One important topic in the book is ethics as well. And when you first started out in street photography, about 10 years ago, there were smartphones already, but AI for example, wasn't that much of a big big issue you address that topic in your book and what's your your take on that how has well the the technology developments in technology and society shape the way you look at street photography and the way you ethically think about street photography over the years
Joshua K. Jackson
00:55:02
Okay, Sean.
Sean Tucker
00:55:03
No, crap.
Kai Behrmann
00:55:07
It gives you time to think.
Sean Tucker
00:55:08
Yeah, I made a video a few years ago where I interviewed somebody who's kind of more up to date in terms of the legal side of it. I think you have to split out. And it's always funny talking to Germans about this because I know Germans are very panicky about street photography and legality. And like, I think there's two issues. One is the legality and the other is the ethics. Like in the UK, as we stand, if you're in a public space, you have no right to privacy. And so making images in a public space is technically legal. So and people featuring in those images and then you can sell that work as art. You can't sell it commercially to promote another product or service, but you can sell it as your own artwork. But then on top of that, you've got the ethics. And that's more like not what can I take photographs is more what should I take photographs of? And that is very personal. Like I can't say what somebody else's ethics can be. I can only say what mine is. So I've got some things that I use as kind of rules of thumb. I generally don't take photographs of homeless people because I feel like and I'm not saying people shouldn't because I think it's important sometimes to make those images to draw attention to that issue. But for me I don't because I'm not sure how to do that yet in a way that I know I'm saying the right thing or I'm not taking advantage of a situation I generally don't take photographs of people who are very drunk because I feel like they're not necessarily in control of themselves and I'm that they might be embarrassed by what I make an image of you can argue it's their fault and I kind of agree with you but I'm just not sure what I'm doing with that and I very rarely take photographs of children in public because I also feel that might be a an unsafe issue or maybe not fair. But again, I'm not saying everyone should do that. I think lots of other people would make those images and that's fine. But you have to decide on your ethics for yourself about what you should, what you're comfortable to make images with. It's like Josh's idea of you can make any image as long as you have good intentions. So I'm always trying to check myself with that stuff. But then on top of the ethics, if you bring in AI, I suppose, Because, you know, I mean, I think the easiest thing to say about AI is that if you make an AI image of street photography, it's not street photography, because that that moment never happened. It's completely fake. So it might it might look interesting and it might be an interesting piece of digital art. But it's not street photography, because one of the I think when you come to the definition of street photography, one of the things we can still never get past is street photography still has to be a candid, genuine moment that actually took place on a street for it to be genuine street photography. I think beyond that, the definition can get very broad and I think it should, because it's more interesting, but I think at the foundation of it, it still has to be a real moment captured in real light by a real camera and a real photographer standing there. It has to be those elements to be, to be classified as street photography. Mm-hmm.
Kai Behrmann
00:58:12
I think, yeah, yeah, you're right. This is very important to make the distinction between the legal side and the ethical side or your own morals and to have a good definition of what you are willing to show in your images and what subjects you want to have in your images. And you're also right about this discussion we always have here in Germany. Whenever I give a workshop, that's one of the first questions. Uh uh yeah people fear that they're one step uh away from getting into jail when they take photos in public it's uh
Sean Tucker
00:58:48
People yelling gdpr at you in your face and like yeah yes i mean i still don't know of a single case in germany where a street photographer has actually been prosecuted for making images i think the panic is too much i i haven't i mean if it was illegal germans have been saying it's been illegal for years and years and years where's the single proof of that like the case where someone's actually got into legal trouble because of it i don't know of it if there is one i think there have been a couple of cases because somebody used images in a gallery where people featured and people tried to sue but they didn't succeed it was it was thrown out because it's still allowed i understand it's more tricky there and people are more sensitive about it but legally speaking i think in germany it's still legal technically i'm not sure maybe you'd know better
Kai Behrmann
00:59:37
So it's no legal advice, but yeah, I think the same. As far as I know, there's never been a real case where it got to court and the street photographer was sentenced to whatever. There's this famous case that you mentioned. There was an argument about a photo that was used to promote a gallery exhibition. And in the end, it turned out they had to take down the image in front of the gallery of the museum, but they were allowed to have it within the exhibition. So it's German courts value street photography as art. And as long as you stay within the boundaries of photography and art, you are well protected and you are allowed to make street photography in Germany.
Sean Tucker
01:00:27
That's actually a good example, isn't it? Because the banner outside to advertise the exhibition is technically commercial, because it's advertising something, but the actual print of exactly the same image inside is a display of art. So it's that commercial versus art usage, I think that's the key. Yeah.
Joshua K. Jackson
01:00:44
Yeah i think i think gdpr gdpr has exemptions for artistic and journalistic use um and obviously, when you start getting into commercial uh use that's absolutely not right, um but fortunately a lot of the topics on the book are less about photographing what people look like and more you know a feeling of the moment or abstracting the moment or making an interpretation of it in some way where it's not just a straight picture of someone's face um so, maybe people in germany um there's some things in there uh that can help people that are feeling a bit nervous about that.
Sean Tucker
01:01:22
Yeah we we literally thought about that when we put in the book together is in a world where people are becoming more and more suspicious of street photographers and being photographed in public this book has a load of ideas more than any other street photography book i picked up which which teach you how to perhaps abstract people so you can protect their anonymity but still make a really interesting moment of a subject and scene so there are a lot of those ideas in there um which might help yeah
Kai Behrmann
01:01:47
Yeah, exactly. I always find it, well, it's a shame if you shy away from street photography because of these fears that are not really grounded. And going back to the beginning of the conversation when you talked about creative blocks and fears, it's often that there's just a vague notion of what is allowed, what is not allowed. And you just have to really get clear on that to realize that actually you have the right to take images. And there's so many ways of of doing it even though if you feel uncomfortable and don't want to face a discussion on the street there's so many other ways you can shoot uh street photography um and have joy in it so it'd be a real shame if people yeah just didn't wouldn't do it because of those fears and uh i think there your book is also so strong because it it opens up this canvas of possibilities and and everyone finds something in it that one can take and that one can dig deep into what street photography could be personally. You don't have to be a street photographer who shows his images in the public. If you prefer to make it more personal, just take the pictures and work on it and leave them on the side, print them, show them your friends and whatever. Whatever, maybe over time you're a few more comfortable about sharing them in an exhibition, but just take the picture and then you can always think about where to publish them.
Joshua K. Jackson
01:03:23
Yeah.
Kai Behrmann
01:03:25
Well, maybe coming to an end, Josh and Sean, now the book is out. And what is it, well, to sum this up, what you hope people will take away from this book? What are your expectations?
Joshua K. Jackson
01:03:42
I hope that people will read it and maybe just feel a little bit rejuvenated. And it just opens the possibilities for people. because we've all gone out on the streets where we walk around and we kind of limit our beliefs about, oh, there's nothing here or, you know, I've walked down the street a thousand times. And hopefully people read the book and kind of carry some of the things in there with them as they're walking around. I appreciate you can't carry everything with you because there's so much in there. But just take an idea and roll with it for a day and see what comes out of that process. But yeah, I just hope it inspires people to try and find a path towards the images that they want to make and develop an understanding of the reason why they're making them. We've already had people that have kind of got in touch with us and say, oh, I took this idea this day and it really helped me and these are some of the images I made with a different mindset or distorting reality or thinking about street photographs without people. But yeah, just improving people's outlook and aspiration for what they can actually do.
Sean Tucker
01:04:58
Yeah, and I suppose just thinking outside the box, because a lot of us get kind of, we can become quite myopic. We're looking for one subject. We shoot one kind of way with one sort of view on the world. And hopefully this just broadens things out a little bit and gives you some new tools in your toolbox to try or new ways of seeing or capturing images that hopefully just expand what you're already doing and give you more kind of strings to your bow. So, yeah, and ideas about what to shoot and why as well. One of the things I've learned a lot from Josh is taking a longer view of things and just photographing for like a like on Instagram today, like thinking about things with history's hindsight or how things will look down the road. And hopefully it will challenge people to think less about the short term attention they can maybe get for their images and think about more of a long term legacy that they can leave with their images. If they plug away at this over time more patiently and sort of start to create bodies of work that maybe it takes years to put together, that that stands a chance of being something they can actually leave behind for the world.
Kai Behrmann
01:06:03
Yeah, that's what I enjoy about the book. It's not just a book of quick hacks. Maybe, well, these days we always look for this quick solution to something. But if you really want to get serious about street photography or photography in general, you have to put in the work. And I think there's lots of encouragement in the book to dig deeper and to play the long game. So, yeah. Congratulations on the book. It's great. It's great. I hope everybody will get it. It's a great, great read. Well, thank you so much, Sean and Josh. And the last question you said in the beginning that writing or putting together this book, you yourself have learned a lot too. Is there something that has changed your view on your own street photography and something where you see your street photography heading in the future?
Sean Tucker
01:07:01
For me i think a lot of the stuff i'm talking about in the book uh like is is a lot of sort of josh's way of seeing street photography and it's it's changed it as i've written about it like i i am i'm seeing in my work already that it's affecting how i shoot some from sort of wider cleaner frames to to more filling the frame and abstracting and especially how i'm using color these days um writing about these ideas and the way that josh shoots has definitely started to shift how i'm making images which which is great you know it's it's i and i think this is what this book will be brilliant for is people like me who've traditionally maybe played it quite safe it it will help you sort of push the boat out a little more and be more unashamedly creative with what you're trying to doing rather than trying to keep it neat and tidy um and that's been that's been great to to sort of explore for myself yeah
Joshua K. Jackson
01:08:00
For me, I wouldn't say it's necessarily changed anything, but just more reinforced, you know, some ideas that I had before about why I'm doing things and my approach and, to kind of just remind myself, just keep knuckling down, you know, and things will come out of that process if you stay true to what you enjoy and your kind of approach of doing things.
Sean Tucker
01:08:26
It might be worth mentioning by the way just a practical thing that there is actually there's also a german translation coming out which is releasing on september 24th with depunked so yeah obviously like if you want to grab it in the original it's available now but there are pre-orders you can make pre-orders for the german translation that's coming out later in the year as well
Kai Behrmann
01:08:50
Yeah yeah that's uh yeah great uh it's coming out in d.verlag uh it's uh yeah one of the traditional photo publishing um editorials here so yeah it's a good good option if you if you want the german audience wants to grab it in german yeah well thank you very much josh and uh sean it was a pleasure talking to you about this great book and uh wish you all good luck with the book and maybe you also come over to Germany again to talk about the book. I don't know if there's anything planned in the future.
Sean Tucker
01:09:27
Not yet, but we're always open.
Joshua K. Jackson
01:09:31
We'll see.
Kai Behrmann
01:09:34
Okay. Well, thank you very much.
Joshua K. Jackson
01:09:36
Cheers, Kai.
Sean Tucker
01:09:37
No worries. Thank you, Kai. Lovely to talk to you.
Joshua K. Jackson
01:09:39
Bye-bye.

2026 - Kai Behrmann: Visueller Storyteller und Fotograf

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